Microsoft will never again sneakily force Windows downloads on users

windows-10-box

There have been various controversies with Windows 10, from issues with privacy and telemetry, to ads and forced upgrades. Following a court case, Microsoft has vowed to never force upgrade files onto users again.

Windows users in Germany were particularly unimpressed when Microsoft forcibly downloaded many gigabytes of files to upgrade from Windows 7 and 8 to Windows 10. Having held out for 18 months, and losing its case twice, Microsoft has finally agreed to stop its nefarious tactics.

After a lengthy battle with Germany's Baden-Würtenberg consumer rights center, Microsoft made the announcement to avoid the continuation of legal action. A press release on the Baden-Würtenberg website reveals that Microsoft has announced it will no longer download operating system files to users' computers without their permission:

Microsoft will not download install files for new operating systems to a user system’s hard disk without a user's consent.

The consumer rights center hoped for this resolution to be reached much sooner, but Microsoft's decision will please the courts and could have a bearing on how the company acts in other countries.

The announcement is described as "a success for consumer rights in the digital world," and it brings to a close one of Windows' darker periods. But some people are already asking whether feature updates to Windows 10 fall under the same banner, and wondering whether these will have to be treated in the same way.

Image credit: g0d4ather / Shutterstock

229 Responses to Microsoft will never again sneakily force Windows downloads on users

  1. MacGillaPhoil says:

    This is going to generate a ton of hits for Mark. Bonus check in the mail! #ilovemyadblockers!!!!

    • Order_66 says:

      Microsoft is a company rife with treachery, of course it's going to generate a lot of hits, Mark is just doing his job.

      • MacGillaPhoil says:

        "rife with treachery"

        Brother you need help. First start with quit using all Microsoft products if you truly feel that way.

        Next never comment on another blog post about Microsoft. I mean if you are not using that stuff that speaks volumes already.

      • Order_66 says:

        "There will be Windows 10 upgrades for all Lumia Windows Phone 8 devices"

        "a small number of users backed up numerous PCs and stored entire movie collections and DVR recordings."

        "but there was one particular moment in particular where, you know, the red X in the dialog box which typically means you cancel didn't mean cancel"

        Rife with treachery...

      • Ordeith says:

        "In the wake of his early 2013 visits to China, North Korea, and Burma, it would come to be appreciated that the chairman of Google might be conducting, in one way or another, “back-channel diplomacy” for Washington."
        -Julian Asange

        "I actually think most people don't want Google to answer their questions. They want Google to tell them what they should be doing next."
        -Google Chairman Eric Schmidt

        “Some governments will consider it too risky to have thousands of anonymous, untraceable, unverified citizens – “hidden people;” they’ll want to know who is associated with each online account and will require verification at a state level, in order to exert control over the virtual world.”
        - Google Chairman Eric Schmidt

        "We know where you are. We know where you've been. We can more or less know what you're thinking about;"
        -Google Chairman Eric Schmidt

        "Google is more than a business. Google is a belief system.".
        -Google Chairman Eric Schmidt

        "Nobody wants to acknowledge that Google has grown big and bad, but it has. Schmidt’s tenure as CEO saw Google integrate with the shadiest of U.S. power structures as it expanded into a geographically invasive megacorporation"
        -Julian Asange

        Now that's rife with treachery. Doesn't stop you from being a doting fanboy, though.

      • Harry says:

        You must be thrilled with the probable Google/Walmart business agreement. 😎

      • Ordeith says:

        They kinda deserve each other, don't they? 😒

      • Harry says:

        Agreed, it's a mighty powerful far reaching union though. Give it some time and it may have Amazon looking over its shoulder.

      • Ordeith says:

        We know Google wants insight into those brick and mortar transactions. Anything to get more data and build a bigger profile.

      • MacGillaPhoil says:

        Like I said you need help. First step never use a Microsoft product again.

      • Harry says:

        Order_66 is no different than Boltman only coming from the opposite direction. They are both equally nauseating.

    • Ordeith says:

      The site has had very little participation for a few days. They needed a hit piece to rile up the base.

  2. RO says:

    A bit late with that mighty concession by MS since that tactic has run its course, and lots of our Win 7/8 PC's were "transformed" without consent, and reverting to 8/8.1 is not much of an option now. A couple of mine no longer have drivers in Win 10 as they did with 8.1 for certain bits of the hardware such as full touchpad features on an Asus T100HA 2-in-1, and a Thinkpad Tablet 2 that lost support for its cellular radio (and a bunch of pre-installed apps such as Office 2013 - expected to "subscribe" to online Office - mobile freebie is good enough, and free LibreOffice is better, so forget it, MS). Also, there is the issue with several Atom 27xx CPU machines like the TT2 and an Acer W3 that will not get any more Win 10 updates after last year's 1607 version, and when I tried rolling them back last year, Win 8.1 was never quite the same as before.

    Linux has been my main daily driver, and will be more so than ever, now. If a PC won't work well with that, I won't consider it (being retired helps since I don't have to put up with "business requirements" any more ;-} ). FWIW, several generations of Dell's have done fairly well with Linux for me including a recent gen Venue Pro 11 with Core M that came with Win 8.1 that is doing fine with Linux Mint 18.2, i.e., supports power management (albeit not as sophisticated as Win 8.1, but "good enough"), touch screen, wifi, audio, graphics, etc.

    • MyDisqussion says:

      Fedora used to have issues with Broadcom wifi before they learned to love open source. I don't remember all of the names now, but there was bwcutter and ndiswrap, and all kinds of ugliness. Then, the kernel would get updated, you'd have to download an alternate kernel update (using ethernet) until the kernel caught up a few weeks later. It was enough to make me swear off Broadcom chips forever. That issue has been resolved now for several years. Wifi is recognized out of the box.

      • RO says:

        I have had those kinds of struggles, too, with various hardware and distro/versions over the years. That Venue Pro would not do sound through the headphone jack, only HDMI output, until Ubuntu 16.04 - 14.04 and 15.10 did not work. The Asus T100HA Broadcom wifi was not working even with latest Mint 18.2 (Ubuntu 16.04+) and 4.11 kernels until I actually searched discussions on that combination, and found some text-based configuration file for the driver needed a correction (think I copied file from somewhere, but might have just done manual text edit); then it magically worked ;-}

        I have done that sort of stuff with Linux for almost 20 years for the challenge of it, but (my) life is getting too short to spend the rest of my days on that kind of silliness. MS makes it worse because of their closed source, and the need for deep-diving gurus to find out what the fixes might be, if any. Lately, it seems I have found better hardware support (for older stuff) with Linux than Windows, so I can get by more easily with slightly older hardware that is a lot cheaper than new stuff, and works nearly as well.

        For me it's getting to be a matter of putting a "freeze" on feature changes new distros/version, and only getting critical fixes for a stable LTS version (early in the 5-year support cycle!), especially for security, and get on with "real world" living while I can ;-}

    • barely_normal says:

      Why do you think reverting is not an option, now? On OEM machines, Microsoft cannot blacklist the serial #, lest they really upset things.

  3. async2013 says:

    Let the shit start hitting the fan (boys)

  4. TechFan says:

    So this is not about weekly patches and updates but the major update from Windows 7/8 to Windows 10. And to be clearer, it's about forcibly downloaded many gigabytes of files to upgrade from Windows 7 and 8 to Windows 10. NOT actually forcing the upgrade itself, just downloading all the files so when they are ready to upgrade they are there.

    It is an easy thing to say you won't do it again -
    1 - This is the last Windows :)
    2 - If not the last Windows, it will just be prompted before downloading.

    This is really just not a big deal if I follow it. Not sure the word nefarious is really a fair word (I call that fake news).

  5. MyDisqussion says:

    I learned in school that questions on exams with "never" and "all" are typically false answers. I don't know that I believe Microsoft that they will never download operating system files again. But, if they prove me wrong, then good.

    If only they had acted this way in the summer of 2015. I don't have any issues with them downloading operating system files in advance, but it should have required a positive opt-in selection. There should have been no confusion about what the user was agreeing to. They should also not peer-to-peer the operating system updates.

  6. Order_66 says:

    This is absolutely embarrassing for microsoft and the fanboys but due to microsofts regressive stranglehold on the desktop market and their total contempt for the consumer they will just shrug it off until they scheme up their next blatant act of dishonesty.

    • TechFan says:

      Why is it embarrassing - from the article, the issue was downloading the installer files needed to take them to Windows 10. NOT force the update, not trick anyone into anything - this is all about downloading gigs of files, taking up hard drive space. And the people that had zero desire to go to Windows 10 are mad, that it was even on their hard drive (which there were article, I believe including Betanews) how to remove those files and free up the couple of gigs. This is far from end of the world issues, or embarrassment. How was this dishonest?

      • Order_66 says:

        "Microsoft will not download install files for new operating systems to a user system’s hard disk without a user's consent."

        Why is this so hard for you to understand?

        "Microsoft made the announcement to avoid the continuation of legal action."

        Truly embarrassing...

      • TechFan says:

        Wow - talk about 1st world problem. Files where downloaded (to make the upgrade fast), not forced to upgrade, and easy to remove the files. How will humans get by :)

      • Order_66 says:

        Maybe you forgot about the whole red x means yes trickery?

        My what a selective memory you have but it's not surprising.

      • Fantasm says:

        The hidden download was to facilitate the red "X" trick as otherwise it could have been noticed and or stopped more readily as it would have taken far longer to do an install...

      • Ordeith says:

        The red x has always meant dismiss on a notification. I'm surprised you didn't know that, having used computers for so long. How embarrassing for you.

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        yes dismiss or close, indicating that the user has no desire to confirm or give authorization to "automatically install anything"

        which Microsoft changed the red X to do and is something that it expressly tells developers not to do.

      • Ordeith says:

        So a notification pops up reminding you of a scheduled meeting. You think the red 'x' cancels the meeting? Oo.

        I wonder how you explain that to the boss.

      • pmdci says:

        Your attempts of rationalisation are laughable at best. Do you actually schedule some time during the day to embarrass yourself, or is this pretty much an ad-hoc sort of activity?

      • Ordeith says:

        Your attempts to twist reality are laughable at best. Do you actually schedule some time during the day
        to embarrass yourself, or is this pretty much an ad-hoc sort of
        activity?

      • pmdci says:

        Oh you poor, sad little girl.

      • Ordeith says:

        Inner dialog? Weird that you would type it out. 🤷

      • pmdci says:

        Oh those come backs. What's next. "I'm rubber, you're glue"?
        How many times does one needs to flush for you to go away?

      • Ordeith says:

        I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter. 😀

      • pmdci says:

        LOL... I'm sorry was that you trying to be mean? Looked more like a little girl having a hissy fit.

      • Ordeith says:

        LOL... I'm sorry was that you trying to be smart? Looked more like a pre-schooler throwing a tantrum.

      • pmdci says:

        "LOL... I'm sorry was that you trying to be smart?"
        Nope.

      • Ordeith says:

        It's for the best, you would only fail anyway.

      • pmdci says:

        Says the imbecile who just copies comebacks. A horse can outsmart you, girl.

      • Ordeith says:

        And that's the best you can come up with? LOL. Pathetic. ,🤣🙄

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        sure try and conflate a meeting notification with an operating system upgrade notification, which are two completely different things, while completely ignoring the fact that Microsoft changed the behavior of what the X does (lets not forget against their own recommendations on the subject.)

        I'm usually not at my computer so it's rather easy to explain.

      • Ordeith says:

        A notification of an event is a notification of an event. There is no ambiguity except that which you are trying to invent.

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        there is alot of abiguity between a meeting notification and a "please upgrade to windows 10" notification. if you can't see that well... ..

      • Ordeith says:

        They are both notifications of scheduled tasks. There is no ambiguity. If you can't see that, well... ..

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        except there was no approval for the so called "scheduled task"

        that is your MAJOR difference.

      • Ordeith says:

        Do you really approve all your meetings? 😲 must be nice. 🙄

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        unlike you, I don't need to "approve meetings as I don't track them on the computer

      • Ordeith says:

        So you're just not that important. Got it.

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        you can assume what you want. doesn't mean your right.. :) have a good day

      • Ordeith says:

        >doesn't mean your right

        Doesn't mean I'm wrong either, but at least I know how to use contractions. :D

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        sorry I'm more technical then an English major,

      • Ordeith says:

        >I'm more technical then an English major,

        Or even a casual English user. Most intelligent people can at least spell simple words correctly, and most technical people understand the difference between 'than' and 'then'. You, however...

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        or maybe it's just not that important on a comment section...
        I do more with programming languages then English so

        but then you just let microsoft do whatever it wants... speaks volumes that you are more concerned with english then your data security

      • Ordeith says:

        >or maybe it's just not that important on a comment section...

        Or that's just a pathetic excuse to try and mask your ignorance.

        🙄

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        no ignorance here, just not that important to me, unlike grammer nazis like you.

      • Ordeith says:

        Ignorance is the one thing you have in abundance.😂

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        yes you do keep proving how to show ones ignorance levels

      • Ordeith says:

        And you keep showing them. Amazing.

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        to bad you have it backwards :D

      • Ordeith says:

        Its only your ignorance that makes you think that. :D

      • Fantasm says:

        Also, the guidelines stated that the Red "X" should never be used to indicate "OK"

      • Ordeith says:

        And it didn't. It meant "dismiss". Like all notifications.

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        which is EXACTLY what Microsoft made it mean for about a month, after many months of it just dismissing the message (as it was meant to do)

      • Ordeith says:

        Wrong. It still just dismissed the message, like always.

        Here is the message it dismissed:

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/688b3b2cad8d3b6a02cb5a430ca7b580356e86b6ba96f17ddb5ccb28d6f7f817.jpg

        Only the brainless would think closing that notification without additional action would cancel the event. Just like you, missing all those important meetings. :D

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        WRONG! where did i give approval to apply any update?

        oh yeah I didn't. the X (per Microsoft's own guidance "that the Red "X" should never be used to indicate "OK"") did not give approval. EVERY other message that came up until the one they changed the behavior on the red X, REQUIRED an approval or "OK" this one the red X provided an "OK" against Microsoft guidance.

        I don't miss any important meetings, You must though as you seem to know an awful lot about it. see I have a brain that provides me notifications I don't rely on a computer to do so.

      • Ordeith says:

        What part of "Based on your Windows Update settings" Did you not understand? What did you think approving "automatic updates" would mean?

        Maybe you don't think you miss meetings because you can't figure out if you're even employed. 🙄

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        what part of approval don't you understand, last time I checked "I" own my computer not microsoft.

        ah yes Microsoft fanboys last resort insults. I haven't been unemployed since i was 13

      • Ordeith says:

        If you set the OS to update automatically your approval was implied. 🙄

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        that is all well and good for those that do, I don't and it still attempted to do it. so now what are you left with.... yup the same stinking pile you had before.

        not to mention both the windows 10 update and each feature patch have consistently failed until i put a l=plain jane keyboard on the system. so much for microsoft getting the whole update thing fixed to.

      • Ordeith says:

        > I don't and it still attempted to do it. so now what are you left with..

        The anecdotal word of a fool with a motive. Not very reliable.

      • Forsaken Perared says:

        I have never let Microsoft "automatically do anything

      • Ordeith says:

        Sure, sure. 🙄😂

      • TechFan says:

        You are confusing topics -
        This article isn't about the X thing (which X historical means close, not cancel any options below). This article is about file downloading, taking up space, even before getting prompted if you want Windows 10 or not.

      • Fantasm says:

        Actually it's not. The downloads per done in the background so as to make sure the install happened quickly before the users who pressed the "X", would realise. If the install had included a 3+ hour 5+ gig download happening in the foreground, more people would have realised what was going on and stopped it...

      • Harry says:

        Order_66 isn't confusing topics...he is just confused, full stop!

      • Harry says:

        MS apologized for the red x debacle. In my mind the most shameful trickery of the whole upgrade events however as I said, MS apologized. That is all they can do and we should move on.

      • Order_66 says:

        Where can this alleged apology be found? All I've seen were claims from one of the senior techs admitting their deceitful ambitions.

        If there's an official apology from Microsoft then cite it.

      • Harry says:

        As you know it's pointless trying to post a link however if you Google " Chris Capossela, Chief Marketing Officer at Microsoft " in relation to the red x deceit you will easily find it.

      • Order_66 says:

        Simply post a quote of the apology, if it exists.

      • Harry says:

        Chris Capossela,

        “We know we want people to be running
        Windows 10 from a security perspective etc, but finding that right
        balance where you’re not stepping over the line of being too aggressive
        is something we tried and for a lot of the year I think we got it right,
        but there was one particular moment in particular where, you know, the
        red X in the dialog box which typically means, you know, cancel didn’t
        mean cancel. And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world,
        with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far and
        then, of course, it takes some time to roll out the update that changed
        that behavior. And those two weeks were pretty painful and clearly a
        lowlight for us.”

      • Order_66 says:

        There's no "we are sorry".
        There's no "we apologize".

        Where is this alleged apology? just quote it and I'll look it up.

      • Harry says:

        You are deliberately being difficult. MS is a huge multinational company and that statement from such a high ranking executive is about as close as you will get to an apology. Legal ramifications would also be considered by MS.

      • Order_66 says:

        I'm not being difficult at all, you claimed they apologized but have failed to show that they did.

        Simple really.

      • Harry says:

        You're just playing word semantics. Any reasonable person would consider that an apology. However, just for for you taking into account your thousands of anti MS posts I will change it from an apology to an acknowledgement from MS that they over stepped. Does that make your MS hatred any better?

      • Ordeith says:

        It's called believing what he wants to believe in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Order_66 is well practiced in that particular "skill".

      • Harry says:

        Yeah, it just isn't something worth arguing about. MS has owned it and I'm just trying to compromise to put it to bed.

      • Order_66 says:

        I'm not playing semantics at all, you claimed they apologized but failed to provide any evidence that they did.
        Now you're changing your tune to they made an acknowledgment that they over stepped.

        Wouldn't it have been easier if you just didn't post any BS to begin with?

      • Order_66 says:

        Name calling, meme posting, changing your story etc

        Now matter how hard you pound your fists and froth at the mouth you still lost the entire argument because you claimed that microsoft apologized and yet they didn't do any such thing at all.

      • Harry says:

        I disagree!

      • Fantasm says:

        That's not an apology....

      • Harry says:

        Read my conversation with Order_66 just below to understand my POV on the subject.

      • Fantasm says:

        While I understand what you were saying with him, he too does have a point... It was more of a statement that they screwed up, an admission of guilt, rather than an apology... If they had simply added "we are sorry" to the whole thing it would have been better but they conspicuously didn't.

      • Harry says:

        Admission of guilt/ an apology...it's just semantics. Think about what MS would leave themselves open to legally with a full on fall on their sword apology.

      • Fantasm says:

        Well, in my case we had slow internet for because of it downloading 5+ gigs to each of the computers in the house. A couple of which had small boot drives that ran low on space for no apparent (at the time) reason...
        Getting rid of the files meant that they simple started downloading again. It wasn't until GWX control that it was stopped...
        That being said, I was lucky in that I don't have a monthly cap on my internet. Many people have their internet either very slow or capped and had to pay overages...

      • TechFan says:

        MS pushed them out at different times, not per a house. But your point is there, I guess. If you internet sucks (like 5meg and below) and you are trying to watch Neflix and this starts to download. Hardly end of the world stuff, but I get it, Netflix is important.

        No - they didn't download again, at least list on my Surface 3 (small hard drive, got rid of the files, and that was it).

      • Fantasm says:

        The big problem is that in many areas the monthly data is capped at 2 gigs a month or even less...
        .
        "And the price for a given amount of data varies widely from province to province, even with the same carrier. For example, a 1 GB plan from Rogers costs $75 per month in Alberta, Ontario, B.C. and the Maritimes, but just $40 in Saskatchewan and $45 in Manitoba."
        .
        " would blow past 10 GB of data in overage," it said. "Depending on provider, that could add upwards of $40 to your monthly bill." "
        .

      • barely_normal says:

        I had no idea you, in the Great White North, were getting screwed that badly on data. OTOH, we get screwed on healthcare, whereas yours is free!

      • Fantasm says:

        Yeah, Internet here is great in the cities, but low speeds and high rates outside... I'm lucky, I have a 25Mbps unlimited plan, that costs me about $70 a month...
        .
        Go an hour north of my place there is no more hi speed internet until the north pole... It's all dial up, and satellite and 5Mbps might be considered blazingly fast...
        .
        And remember, compared to US dollars it's higher AND on top of that, we pay another 13% for our HST (Sales) Tax.

      • Ordeith says:

        Interesting how Windows 10 usage is 12% higher than Windows 7 in Canada given your dire assessment of the country. :)

      • barely_normal says:

        I did not know taxes were quite that high. What does HST stand for, and is it basically a VAT, like in England? Does it cover everything, or only certain items? [Like excise taxes here in the US, on tires]

      • Fantasm says:

        "The harmonized sales tax (HST) is a consumption tax in Canada. It is used in provinces where both the federal goods and services tax (GST) and the regional provincial sales tax (PST) have been combined into a single value added sales tax."
        .
        That explains it better than I could... so basically, everything is taxed at sale except for a few exemptions such as food (except for prepared food in a restaurant).
        As it is, it adds 13% onto the price of pretty much everything. Essentially, it is the final tax on a purchase so may in rare cases become a tax on another tax...

      • barely_normal says:

        Thanks for taking the time - the last time I was in Canada was in 1969, coming down the Alcan highway, from Anchorage to California.

      • Captain555 says:

        Healthcare is not free in Canada. Everyone pay something on every pay check that go toward paying for their HC. Each province has his own system. I don't know about the other province, but I know that in Quebec, everybody pay 3% of their revenues to finance HC.

      • barely_normal says:

        Here in the US, if we do not pay at the time of service, we tend to think of it as free. I knew it was tax funded...

      • Captain555 says:

        I know, that's why it's good to remind us sometimes that there is no free lunch in life. The grass always look more green in the neighbor's yard.

        Look at Oregon who try implement tuiton free, they have to back out of it that now. Free doesn't work.

      • barely_normal says:

        I'm not certain about things in Oregon, but publicly funded things, like tuition, definitely work. In fact, many junior colleges all over the US used to be tuition free.

        It usually comes down to lessening points where personal greed takes precedence over public good.

      • AuntyNF says:

        (elaborating on Captain555 as he beat me to it...)

        er... health care in Canada is NOT 'free' - it's funded by both national and provincial personal/corporate income taxes as well as sales taxes, lottery proceeds, and other public revenue sources. A few provinces also now charge additional health insurance premiums.
        It's okay as long as you don't require much beyond routine care - beyond that prepare to wait (3 to 6 months is not uncommon for some procedures/services) and perhaps, depending on where you live, travel long distances because not all procedures/services may be readily available locally.
        So yes, people pay less on average for health care in Canada but it's not 'free'... and many discover it's very much you get what you pay for.

      • barely_normal says:

        Well, perhaps you should put that out in wide release, because the story from at least 5 separate sources [ a recent one on Netflix, comparing things in several countries, and Michael Moore's "Sicko" being two of them] is that it is fine, free, and I knew it was paid for by taxes - at least your taxes aren't buying $38 hammers, and $200 toilet seats for a far too fat military.

      • AuntyNF says:

        Oh... 3 unnamed sources plus an unnamed something you watched on Netflix and Sicko, a movie USA Today (hardly an opponent of progressive/liberal causes) said uses omission, exaggeration and cinematic sleight of hand to make its points. You're just killing me.

        To the folks paying the bills, something cannot be both 'free' and also being paid for by taxes, my friend. As they say, 'there is no free lunch.'

        And now you're an expert on defense spending also? My my... It might interest you to know that defense spending today, as a percentage of the total government budget, is actually a bit less than the post-WWII ~20% average. Meanwhile, Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid and other transfer payments have grown from less than a third in 1960 to now over 70% of government spending... And if you don't think there aren't the proportional equivalent of $38 hammers and $200 toilet seats in the latter deluge of $ pouring into and out of Washington, you're a fool.

      • barely_normal says:

        Gee, Aunty, you need to calm down, your panties might get into a wad.

        You might note I said I was aware of tax payments, but again, if we don't pay at point of treatment, it is considered free by many. Also, unless you get an itemized billing, it is not self-funded.

        As to sources, I did not realized I should be composing a bibliography...this is casual conversation, not "let's be prepared to be critical".

      • AuntyNF says:

        Weak...

        "...this is casual conversation, not "let's be prepared to be critical" he says after roundly criticizing my correctly pointing out health care in Canada is not 'free' and that, while it might be 'fine' for those many only needing routine care, it's not without its problems for those who may have more serious/complex or chronic health issues. You see, it's not all sunshine and daisies as you and Michael Moore would have us believe.

        "...if we don't pay at point of treatment, it is considered free by many.

        And this is a (if not THE) problem...
        It's that kind of thinking over these many years since the advent of employer-provided health insurance that's led to overuse of the US health care system and driven up costs. No one paying attention to the costs because someone else is paying for it.
        Like the old saw goes: if you think it's expensive now - just wait until it's FREE!

      • barely_normal says:

        You incorrectly identify a couple of things, the first being the reason for the cost of health insurance in the US. The primary driver of cost is the greed of the insurance companies, and though other reasons are surely there, corporate greed tops the list.

        Eliminating multiple points of greed would reduce healthcare costs and make everyone, save for the insurers and those investing in them, much happier.

      • barely_normal says:

        You seem to want to engage in an argument that anyone judging your tone can see they will never be able to prove anything to your satisfaction, mostly because you seem to be out of sorts, or are simply feeling truculent.

        I don't wish to further engage, so I'll bid you adieu.

      • AuntyNF says:

        Sure... that's your best move at this point.

      • Fantasm says:

        "easy to remove the files"
        .
        Easy for you and me perhaps... not so much for those who are not computer savvy....
        I ended up having to remove them for several people.

      • 1DaveN says:

        Yes, I'm sure they're humiliated.

      • Fantasm says:

        "Why is it embarrassing"
        .
        Well, for a start, the fangirls, at one time claimed that this wasn't even happening, that Microsoft would never do this and the users must have said it was ok.
        Then, it shows the lengths that MS will go to trying to force W10 on people... The obvious implications being, if they would stoop to this level, what else would they do?

      • MyDisqussion says:

        There were cases in which Microsoft blew the data caps for users. This translates into uncompensated expenses.

      • Harry says:

        The only thing embarrassing for Order_66 is the thousands of posts of hatred toward MS that dribble out of his faeces stained mouth every day.

    • MyDisqussion says:

      If the sheeple fangurlz say it never happened, but Microsoft says it did, who are we supposed to believe?

    • Harry says:

      MS fanboys! You like throwing that around. You're clearly too imbecilic to comprehend that as a MS hater you are exactly the same. The only difference is you're at the other end of the extremist position. Both extremes are equally closed minded and pathetic in nature.

      • Fantasm says:

        See, the thing is, we aren't "haters". We use Microsoft products. I have Windows XP, Windows 7 and even windows 10.... I have MS keyboards, an MS mouse... and even MS webcams...

        We also don't care who makes the best system. It could be Android, Apple or Microsoft... or even Linux....
        .
        We complain because we want Windows 10 to be better than it is... When you call people "haters" you are criticising people who want what you like to be even better than it is....
        .
        People get calls "fanboys" and "fangirls" etc because they have an almost religious devotional worship of all things Microsoft. We come on to complain about something we don't like. They come on here specifically to shoot down those complaints. They don't get on here and post about stuff they like. Every week there is a column on the best Windows apps... I don't see any posting there by fans. That is unless someone posts a negative comment and then it gets swarmed by the usual crowd.
        .
        Yes there are some people who have a hate for MS or whatever... Perhaps they have a valid reason to though.... even if it's only valid to them....
        .
        Me, I don't like Windows 10... didn't like Windows 8 either... but then in many ways, there's not a great deal of difference between them... I had high hopes for Windows 10... I even bought a Windows 8 tablet knowing it would be eligible to get Windows 10... I was that hopeful.... Sadly, that was apparently a mistake....
        I would like to see it improved to the point that I have no reservations running it....
        .
        As for the supposed "haters". No one ever asks what they would like. They just assume they don't like anything. Of course, keep giving them the same issues and not fixing them, over and over again, don't be surprised if they continue to dislike it.... That's not being a hater, it's called being consistent....

      • Harry says:

        That must have taken a while to consider and then to type out. There is one problem with it. I didn't call you a MS hater because I don't think you are. My post was directed at Order_66. Sorry mate. 🤣🤣

      • Fantasm says:

        That's ok. I can type fast....
        As for the time to consider not really....
        And I wasn't specifically targeting you either... It's the general mistaken assumption by many that people are either fans or haters....

      • Ordeith says:

        You really should pay attention to the crap you up vote more often, unless it's actually your intention to appear so hypocritical. 😂

  7. pmdci says:

    Now onto filling another complaint: Moving features from the SKU you already paid for, onto a higher SKU.

    • Fantasm says:

      Well, that's one of the "blessings" of forced upgrades... LOL

    • nvic says:

      Sony lost a lawsuit over this (see PS3 Other OS...), perhaps MS should be sued for the same.

      If I buy Product X, labeled as being capable of doing Y, there should never be a reason for it to stop being capable doing Y, provided it isn't damaged or reliant on something external to the product to function (and in such case, it should be advertised along the lines of "functionality available for supported life of the product")

      The only way this would be fine in my book is if new builds that can cause feature loss gave a free upgrade to the higher SKU when installed as an upgrade to an existing installation that would lose features.

      • Tommy Shanks says:

        That's too fair and sensible a solution for most marketing departments.

      • pmdci says:

        My thoughts exactly. You meant that Linux on Playstation fiasco, right?

        Even if a company try to get cheeky with their EULA claiming that they can do this and that, take your money, date your sister, molest your dog -- there are STATUTORY RIGHTS.

      • nvic says:

        That was indeed the one I was referring to. Of course pretty much zero can collect the settlement since nobody's going to have the proof required due to the length of the suit, but nonetheless.

        The precedent set by the case is more important anyway.

  8. Tommy Shanks says:

    "Microsoft will not download install files for new operating systems..." Stop there, Microsoft. Obviously they have no plans to stop forced updates in Windows 10.

    • 1DaveN says:

      Good. Is there some societal gain by everyone having a vulnerable PC instead of a secure one?
      It's arguably bad for them to stage OS upgrades on people's PCs because of the potential cost of all that data traffic, or on devices with possible storage space issues. That doesn't mean we should have hundreds of millions of insecure PCs all around us to placate irrational tin foil hat wearers.

      • Fantasm says:

        You know, I really get tired of stupid lines like "irrational tinfoil hat wearers"
        Is it your intention to insult everyone who doesn't agree with you? Because that's what comments like that come across as...
        .
        Just because YOU have an opinion doesn't mean YOU are right...

      • Ordeith says:

        But his opinion that you are an irrational tinfoil hat wearer is right. :D

      • 1DaveN says:

        OK, bad choice of words. Many of the MS haters on BetaNews are irrational tin foil hat wearers, however, because they complain relentlessly about anything to do with MS, without ever providing a reason for their hatred. At least I'm providing some kind of logic (that our collective security is diminished by unpatched PCs sharing the public Internet), unlike those whose reason for existence is to post "Windows sucks" or "Microsoft sucks" a thousand times a week.

      • tasburath says:

        My problem with forced updates is the fact that if it breaks something you are pretty much screwed.

      • TechFan says:

        MS addressed this issue with the Creators update. You now have options, mainly non-critical vs critical and delay options. What you do, so you don't have to micromanage updates, is delay it to the max, let others find issues, giving time for MS to pull or update the patches/updates being sent out. Historically, major issues from updates are known in 24 hours, if not the first week.

      • barely_normal says:

        These days, you are expected to have multiple PCs in the house - because looking things up with ZERO help files on disk forces ALL queries to the internet. God help you if you don't have high speed internet, or have a problem with an update that hoses the driver for your NIC.

      • Tommy Shanks says:

        You make a valid point about the need to install patches if your OS is connected to the internet. But please, enough with the tinfoil hat stuff.

      • Fantasm says:

        " Is there some societal gain by everyone having a vulnerable PC instead of a secure one?"
        .
        The thing is, you're not going to get rid of all the older computers. Too many people need features or compatibilities that are not in the later versions.
        So by the logic that they maybe harming society by being vulnerable, then Microsoft should continue to patch every computer and every old version of Windows until they physically die...
        ...and we know they either cannot or will not do so....
        .Even as many people get a new Windows 10 computer to replace that old Vista, XP or Windows 7 or 8 one, the old ones don't always disappear, they simply get handed down to a family member or friend, or sold off at a garage sale... so many of them are still out there....

      • 1DaveN says:

        I just think the problem would go away by itself through normal attrition, as those older PCs age out. But it is worsened when people go out of their way to prevent updates for some reason that, apparently, they can't articulate. If one had a legitimate need for an operating system that never underwent any change, they could get Enterprise and configure it that way. But for the masses of home and most business users, deliberately obstructing security patching poses a risk for everyone.

    • TechFan says:

      So which are you -
      The person that never updates Windows
      or
      The person that micromanages updates (spending hours a month looking up each and figuring out what you want).
      or
      The person that complains about it, but has auto-update turned on anyway.

      • Tommy Shanks says:

        Number 1 for locked-down/rarely connected computers. Number 2 for everything else. Although I find it harder and harder to micromanage with all those nebulous descriptions. So I did #3 yesterday in hopes of fixing an SD reader driver issue and enabling optional updates. They never did fix it.

        What do you have against people complaining, anyway? That's why they invented the Internet. We can't all be fanboys and fangirls.

      • barely_normal says:

        The only thing I disagree with is the fact that descriptions have always been nebulous, and actually used to be non-existent. Minor progress there.

      • Tommy Shanks says:

        How I went about selecting patches was really quite simple: read the tech news sites, and they'd pretty much tell you which ones were needed to avoid or fix specific pitfalls; software makers also would let me know which patches were necessary to run their product. I really, really liked the service pack model that made things easy and Windows 7 super stable. I mean, I see no advantage to this new model unless Microst is specifically targeting those who pick and choose their updates.

      • barely_normal says:

        Since I don't run Windows Last myself, I was under the impression that you could delay, for quite some time, but not escape, the eventual install of patches.

        I don't believe it was the service pack model making Windows 7 superior, I attribute it to Microsoft caring before, and much less now.

      • Tommy Shanks says:

        Yes, that's right. I was referring to Windows 8 in a Windows 10 discussion and to make things even more confusing I threw in a bit about Windows 7! I do have a copy of Windows 10 (for VM use only) and you can't set it to selectively download updates like with 7 & 8. The only way I found was to completely disable Windows Update and some people say it gets reset when you install a new build (I've just used Creator's Update, BTW).
        Something I found quite shocking was that you can't completely switch telemetry off either, even after upgrading to Windows 10 Enterprise. It always sends some telemetry data regardless of the SKU (even at '0' level which only is recognized with Enterprise editions), although you can really minimze it. So even Enterprise is not a total cure.
        You can tell Microsoft really cared about Windows 7. Looking at 10 all I see is different "rings" and forks of rings and it makes my head spin. I think they've lost their collective mind at Microsoft. Now emojis apparently are the crux of their universe and will certainly propel 10 to greatness. Sure.

      • Fantasm says:

        "Something I found quite shocking was that you can't completely switch telemetry off either"
        Well, you could physically disconnect it from the internet.... but that might be cruel... lol

      • TechFan says:

        ...I don't know man, it might be a progress back without serious digging.

      • TechFan says:

        LOL - It's not the complaining, it's wasting a life trying to micromanage something (better things to do with our time). SD Readers can be had for dirty cheap - I would just go spend the 10 bucks and move on. But that is me.

      • Tommy Shanks says:

        I think I'll invest in one and forget this nonsense. Funny how one little, insignificant thing can cause hours of fruitless searching. I should try and get out more :)

  9. RoxEroX says:

    Microsoft knew what they were doing. They approached this just like Chevrolet did advertising the Corvair as a sports car. Their lawyers determined the "Risk/Reward" costs of Microsoft's actions. The individual carried little weight in the calculation. This was all about telemetry. They saw all the benefits, financially, of all the personal data that Apple, Google, Face Book and others were acquiring from their products and services. One of their final actions, depending on the level of backlash was just to say, "We are sorry,"

    If you were or are worried about the Government invading your privacy, think again!

    Tech companies motto: "Your PRIVACY belongs to us!"

    So don't be surprised if your data is used to put before you what benefits their financial bottom line, and not necessarily for your benefit.

    And the future, and it is already happening, cultivating your thoughts, actions and beliefs to conform to their standards.

    • pforbes says:

      Windows 10 has already all what Microsoft wanted: telemetry, access to every user privacy, an incredible amount of information to be sold without user knowledge, no third party utilities but a forced use of their own...
      Their goal is already reached. Now is the moment to stop forced upgrades.
      But they keep being the same: no fair play nor any similarity at all with the old and excellent Microsoft Windows created by Bill Gates.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Being in this industry (as a software developer) for over 40 years I concur with your statement about the "old and excellent" Windows. In my humble opinion it remained excellent through Windows7 which all of my systems still run on and will until I either have to replace them or some unforeseen incompatibility develops (I highly doubt the latter). I intend to "drive the wheels" off my existing software investments.

      • Ordeith says:

        Windows 10 is a much better dev environment. Windows 7 just slows me down.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Really? What about the O/S makes development any faster or easier? I tried using it for a year and didn't find that it enhanced my work in any way.

      • Ordeith says:

        Desktop Hyper-V, support for containers, native VHDx and ISO mounting, package manager, Linux subsystem, Powershell 5.1, IoT framework, virtual desktops, DPI independence, Task Manager enhancements.

        Your development requirements must be simple, indeed, if you can't benefit from any of that.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Yeah, actually, my development needs *are* relatively simple at this point. I keep it that way deliberately. The Hyper-V, VHDx and ISO stuff I worked out a long time ago - I use VMWare for virtualizing machines, mounting ISO's has always been a simple matter of having a utility extension. Linux? Who cares about that? ;-) I develop mostly desktop-level GUI stuff (a little web stuff) and back-end SQL database programs, etc. VS2008/2010 serve my needs well. I'm not chasing the "bleeding edge" (IoT, mobile devices and that stuff).

      • Ordeith says:

        Have fun living in the past. VS2016 has enough IDE enhancements alone to make it worth using. But if you want to be unproductive, more power to you.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        I am ... there's tons of work for people who understand back-end and legacy systems. I got better things to do than be a jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none in the software development world. My six-figure income as a "legacy" developer pays the bills just as well as a stressful bleeding edge job does! :-)

      • Ordeith says:

        If only the poor fools paying you knew how much they were getting played. Good thing for you most administrative types are oblivious to your shortcomings, huh?

        I understand back end legacy systems. I also understand why they are "legacy". You can't use btrieve and dbase forever, eventually you migrate to improve efficiency or your business dies as your competition out performs you. Simple as that.

        I like that I can bridge the gap between legacy and modern, get everything talking to each other, and make huge gains with process automation while I'm at it. :)

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Ahh, now the young buck begins to wax insulting! Said young buck probably doesn't realize that the old buck is the sole subject matter expert to a code system that is responsible for paying employees millions of dollars, is the only one who knows how to fix issues with it and has been told by the upper echelons of management that he performs at a level approaching 300% of any developer working in the organization.

        So, keep it up, sport! I was trying to have a friendly conversation but this seemed to become a big testosterone-spurting session by a young developer that has learned to spout terminology terms. My 40-years of experience in this industry and achievements made are really threatened by your arrogant attitude, NOT! Have a nice day.

      • Ordeith says:

        >hat the old buck is the sole subject matter expert to a code system that is responsible for paying employees millions of dollars, is the only one who knows how to fix issues

        More evidence of the relative stupidity of those that run your company. How ridiculous to isolate such knowledge to one fragile human. They're just one auto-accident away from losing everything.

        Hope you can milk it make it to retirement before they get wise.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        I'll bet you're a real peach, son. Nice to not know you.

      • Ordeith says:

        Igualmente.

      • RoxEroX says:

        seen his act before.........

        just offer the PAL a Junior MInt

      • Ordeith says:

        You seem stuck on that product. You desperately need new material.

      • RoxEroX says:

        you must be from Bellflower..................... Junior Mint?

      • Ordeith says:

        See, there you go again. Oo. Do you even recognize your redundancy?

      • RoxEroX says:

        just you......................... how bout a Goober?

      • Ordeith says:

        Wow! It learns! I've seen one impossible thing today. :)

      • RoxEroX says:

        nice come back Potsi.......... Raisinet?

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Yeah, pretty full of himself from the way he handled our conversation. No big deal, he can act like a jerk if he likes. :-)

      • Fantasm says:

        Do what I did... blocked him and it's been peaceful ever since....

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Good idea ... just did that. Thanks for the suggestion. :-)

      • Ordeith says:

        Wow. You're a much bigger fool than I was originally lead to believe. 🙄

      • Ordeith says:

        In other words: Precarious filter bubble dwellers of the world, unite. Protect your delusions and false reality, keep those unwanted facts and challenges away!

      • disqus_8NvNH4baa0 says:

        MaxPeck58, Ordeith really needs to be banned. It happened for one of these trolls (quite possibly the same individual,) for the same sort of behavior.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Agreed. Sure would be nice to just have a civil conversation without people getting abusive, wouldn't it? :-)

      • Ordeith says:

        I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter. ;)

      • WaldemarH says:

        Hey man. I'm totally on your side (using W10 and liking it a lot... with a 1MB big hosts file blocking all kinds of shit), but you have to understand that there are many, many,..., many old programs still running and most of the time nobody has the guts to replace them. Just check the banks which still run Cobol programs on IBM mainframes. If you think Windows 7 is old, you would go mental using mainframe.

        Anyway I once though that the new and shiny is all what should be used, but after 30 years of programming I now see that there is a place for all kinds of code and knowledge in this world. And new and shiny doesn't always mean better... even if I would immediately replace all those Cobol mainframe programs with C++ on a distributed server network, but that is just my thinking.

      • Southern Logic says:

        its not the past there are many enterprise level systems still in that paradigm. No need to change. Surely Obama taught us that all change is not good. Nor is all this cloudy stuff if you do not need it. The cloud gets expensive real fast.

      • Ordeith says:

        That paradigm coexists nicely with and benefits from Windows 10. No need to fear the future just because you're stuck in the past.

      • Southern Logic says:

        It can, yet windows 10 does come with downsides. Telemetry, forced updates, ads in the os, not as nice of a UI. Yet I use windows 10 because i do cross platform dev and it is just easier to use it.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Exactly. The system I spoke of is one such enterprise-level system. The "rules engine" has been migrated (by me) through a number of different technologies starting with, believe it or not, Clipper! It's a full-fledged multi-threaded .Net component now. As I said, though, it supports payroll calculations that are responsible for millions of dollars of people's paychecks. That I don't have to constantly figure out new ways of writing to yet another GUI layer means I must be "living in the past". LOL!

      • Southern Logic says:

        its amazing that the kids want to code in angular, js, etc. You know what? in 6 months their code is obsolete. Old web and winform apps still work. New is not always better, lately its just been different. No reason to change.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        No kidding, that's exactly my observation too. I've developed some real proficiency with C# and .Net (and to a lesser extent ASP.Net) in recent years. I'm still developing mostly Winforms applications for several different clients (because they USE them!) and building a few simple AJAX front ends here and there. The stuff I can produce with VS2008 continues to work unmodified under every version of Windows since XP (including 10). The code that a Winforms/Web developer writes can target billions of machines. The technology (Winforms, ASP.Net, SQL-Server, etc.) is so deeply entrenched that it's going to be a LONG time before you can't find work doing same. I climbed OFF the upgrade train some time ago because I can still deploy solutions anywhere and focus on solving BUSINESS problems instead of pretty new interfaces. This industry is so huge you absolutely MUST specialize in something! The kids coming out of these coding boot camps are not only arrogant but have no clue about how many real business problems go about being solved. But I ramble...

      • Southern Logic says:

        I wonder how many of these script jockeys ever actually created and deployed a real compiled binary executable or if they even know the difference. Their scripting tools and declarative languages will not help them in making tight efficient code. That my friend is becoming a lost art.

      • MaxPeck58 says:

        Boy, you sure hit the nail on the head there! I'm certainly not suggesting that we regress with the technology but I remember fondly the days writing device drivers in Macro Assembler and then writing C boot-loaders, RAM disks, memory-management software, etc. It took REAL skill to write code to hardware that you had to squeeze every byte out of. Back then your OVERLAY descriptor files could be as complex as the code itself! You couldn't just "allocate" megabytes of storage for your latest "object". I like and use some OO but STILL hate wasting machine resource! I've seen some seriously lazy development habits developed because the resources are now "infinite".

        Many employers I've had over the years have pulled me aside and said "why does your stuff run so incredibly fast?". You know the answer.

        These "script jockeys" as you call them just don't get it. If it hadn't been for us "old" guys (who invented the technology in the first place) they couldn't even hold a job!

        As you said, true elegance in software development is becoming a lost art.

      • Ordeith says:

        Yes, and Yes. But then I'm not exactly a "script jockey", just someone intelligent enough to objectively see what Windows 10 brings to the table.

      • Southern Logic says:

        I use windows 10 because it is the best tool to do cross platform dev on. As a straight OS it is not the best out there. Much of it due to its lame UI, and telemetry Neither are needed to build business apps, unless your business is selling Microsoft.

      • Ordeith says:

        It's also the best OS to build business Apps on, but not because of the reasons you stated.

        UWP is actually a very good platform for line of business applications.

      • Ordeith says:

        It's the people that use PHP that I don't understand.

        https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

      • RoxEroX says:

        I wonder if our Opt-Out settings will be changed some time in the future to Opt-In?

        Oops we bad....... sorry about that.

    • Order_66 says:

      Spot-on!

    • Tony R. says:

      "The individual carried little weight in the calculation."

      That's been true since the days when Windows 95 was being developed, and earlier. It is interesting to read commentary in Windows 95 Annoyances by David A. Karp. Karp was a beta-tester of that operating system and he supplied Microsoft with a couple of dozen bug reports and improvement recommendations, but when Windows 95 was released, not a single one of the recommendations had been implemented, hence the book and its successors, Windows 98 Annoyances, etc. Microsoft's attitude toward its customer base has pretty much been a big F.U. for a long, long time.

  10. Slavic says:

    It's only a temporary retreat (or an illusion of retreat) under heavy juridical pressure. Microsoft did not become fundamentally more moral, this cannot occur with current top management.

  11. nvic says:

    Now if only they'd offer a "Free roll back" promotion for those who were force upgraded and don't wish to keep 10.

    Distribute it through "GW7" (or "GW8.1"), as an optional upgrade...

  12. Michael Weyant says:

    If only there were an easy way for me to share this article on my facebook page.

    • Order_66 says:

      There are social media links on every betanews story that make it easy to share on the major social media sites but you may have to adjust your ad blocking software in order to see the links.

  13. david95 says:

    Hmmm. According to Microsoft's claim, Windows 10 will be the LAST version of the OS. Which means, this statement is completely irrelevant.

    • Harry says:

      That's actually a good point. 👍

    • Fantasm says:

      All they did was change from calling it "Windows" with a number or cutesy name after is... as in "Windows 98" or "Windows XP" to "Windows 10" with a build number or cutesy name after it.... as in "Windows 10 Creator's Update" or "Windows 10 S"
      It's still a new version...

  14. barely_normal says:

    At least not until there is a solid advantage to doing it...

  15. paul s says:

    never again in Germany but they will do it again in the rest of the world

  16. Greg Zeng says:

    The underlying upgrade problem is not knowing whether the upgrade is worthwhile. Necessary, time consuming, re-boot needed, etc. Operating systems and applications insist on bothering the user with such nagware. "Experts" like myself are harassed by others on advice needed by the perplexed.

    The ignorance of Microsoft is pretending to not know the system it needs to upgrades. Apple's much more closed & secretive system, hopefully is not as crazy as Microsoft? Our Microsoft-registered equipment should be easier for them to tell us how long & costly it will be to "upgrade". They know the speeds of our equipment, in real-time and in current iming practice. Why cannot they try to estimate the the other aspects of their supposed "upgrade"?

  17. pmdci says:

    SEE: https : / /aka . ms / k1evzs

  18. There are a billion Windows users in the world. Perhaps more. The percentage who actually cares is small, but when there is a billion users, small percentages still mean a lot of people.

    OS X forces updates.
    Android forces updates.
    IOS forces updates.

    Many apps force updates on you without permission. This is actually a good thing most of the time.

    For most the people, the free, and nearly forced (it wasn't actually forced, though many argue it was) upgrade was a benefit and a good thing.

    • Fantasm says:

      "Microsoft deserves props for their great success and for giving away a free upgrade because Windows 8/8"

      It wasn't free. It is more of a trade in... Free would mean you still had your old OS as well....

      .

      "Many of the complainers chose to receive such updates. Many clicked to receive such updates and acted surprised afterwards."

      And you KNOW this how? There were many complaints about it so your argument fails...

      .

      " upgrade was a benefit and a good thing. "

      Yeah, well if it was a "good thing" almost everyone would be running Windows 10 now instead of holding out on windows 7

      .

      "The percentage who actually were harmed by the Windows 10 ugprade is small"
      Which is fine unless you are one of the percentage...

  19. disqus_8NvNH4baa0 says:

    Mark Wycislik-Wilson, Please consider for the sake of tranquility, banning Ordeith, he has become as bad as, if he is not the same person as, BoltmanLives. His constant and incessant badgering of commentors is tiring to say the least.

  20. Melvin says:

    Doing it sneakily does upset a number of people. Of course I never minded it. I actually like it when they do that, because really they're paying you to use Windows.

    • Fantasm says:

      No, they aren't. People paid for a licence to use Windows already.
      Going to Windows 10 is like buying a sports car and then one day the dealer takes away the sports car and puts a family sedan in it's place.

      • Melvin says:

        Sometimes giving us something better seems worse because we're not used to it yet. Still, giving us more OS for no more money is almost like getting paid.

        Although some would say that the advertising detracts from that. And I do myself wish Microsoft wouldn't have started doing what Apple and Google have been doing since they started. Not sneakily updating seems like it might be a good first step in not acting like them, or even in going back to just selling the OS without all the ads and such.

        Depends on how we define and think about it though, I agree.

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