Gates Officially Announces WindowsXP

Microsoft's Bill Gates officially announced the WindowsXP operating system yesterday, bringing with it a slew of articles, Web site, and screen shots of the upcoming software. Beta 2 invitations were sent out this week to some testers not originally included in the beta test, much like Microsoft is doing with OfficeXP. Testers thus far are raving about the new interface, which is being revamped for Beta 2 to include the new Luna interface.

Several features of Luna have Windows lovers reved up to get their hands on a copy, which currently stands at Build 2428 released to testers this week also. Alpha-blending has been included to add new dimensions to the look and feel of the Windows desktop, along with a new skinning system to provide users with "themes" much like WindowBlinds from Stardock.

Coming in two flavors, the Professional and Home editions, WindowsXP builds on stable Windows 2000 technology and WindowsME imaging abilities. The Home edition comes with suped up sharing technology to make switching users quicker and easier than previous Windows versions.

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A new taskbar system has been implemented in WindowsXP, where items are automatically grouped together by likeness. This will save taskbar space when intense multi-tasking is taking place. To help further reduce desk clutter, all icons except for the Recycle Bin have been relocated to a new start menu, and Windows automatically checks and prompts the user to delete dead shortcuts and icons.

Paul Thurrott's WinInformant has a nice article about WindowsXP and the launching event. Highlights of Gates' speech include this boasting of WindowsXP, saying "Windows XP builds on their dreams, taking the power and adaptability of the PC to a new level. It delivers on our vision of bringing the most advanced Windows ever to home users, unlocking the true and amazing potential of everyone's PC."

Additionally, the new site allows you to sign up for XP's Preview Program. This will enable those interested to test Windows XP before it is released to shelves. Although this is not an official beta testing opportunity, you may still forward bugs to Micrsoft's attention.

For more information, you can read an excellent technical overview of WindowsXP over at MSDN.

192 Responses to Gates Officially Announces WindowsXP

  1. aalaap says:

    Put beta 2 on a test machine .. celeron 466 with 64megs of ram .. the damned thing didn't crash at all ! Getting it configured, up and running was a breeze cuz I hardly had to do any of it manually, and hell the UI looks kick-ass ! Looking forward to a folder called C:\WinXP on my drive .. :-)

    • averyc says:

      Beta 2 isn't out yet. You probably have an interim build.

      • PappaDj says:

        Ummmmm this is Beta 2. Of Whistler. Your right though WindowsXP, the name, only has one version but Whistler was only the code name for WindowsXP. I would like to know why it's considered beta still unless it's going to be released on the shelves shortly. I want to see this thing. I've heard good things about this one. No more multiple operating systems with poor security and stability. I wonder how many people are going to post comments on bashing Microsoft. I'm glad to be one of the first viewers of this posting and as my first posting I hope this one doesn't bring on hoards of degrading. Our lives need something better and Microsoft is working on it. Cheers to you Microsoft. I hope Linux and other OS writers continue to get better as well so we can work in a progressive society not an information warfare society.

      • Snag says:

        Remember Memphis and Chicago?? They were in beta for many many months. Beta along with RCs (release candidates). It could be out next month, it could be out next year. But with them releasing the actual products shipping name I would assume it will be released before the years end :P

      • PappaDj says:

        Memphis was the last of the 2 release versions before Win98. I found an old article that was based in July of 97 announing Memphis. I think Windows 98 didn't actually release till beginning of 98. It was almost going to be named Windows 97 but they were off with their target date. What a surprise. I think WindowsMe was also off projection. Basically MS states a date as a time that all bugs "should" be worked out.

        I wonder if WindowsXP will be different than all of there missed target dates because it is also designed for business users. It will be interesting to see how Microsoft's pattern changes when the words "sales drop" is mentioned. :)

      • CPUGuy says:

        WindowsMe was ahead of scheadule at one point, and then got back onto it.

      • CPUGuy says:

        This is not beta2... it's interim build 2428, if you took any time to read at least the announcments NG (that is, IF you are a tester), or heck, if you just looked at the OS, you would know that.

      • PappaDj says:

        Ummmmm... your not going to cry are you? I didn't quite word that correctly. This is beta 2 that they are referencing on the post. It stated that the current release build is 2428 which is the 3 RC however there's rumor of a leaked beta2, which has been out for awhile (just not available for beta testers), and there are quite a few programmers that are working on it, your saying he's not one of them? I wish I could just "look" at his OS but he stated he had beta 2. He probably does have RC3 2428 and doesn't realize that it's beta 1... I'm not going to ASSume he's misinformed that's for him to say. Thank you.

        By the way Bill announced that the retail version will be release in the 2nd half of this year, however I suspect that since they've hyped this product to be superior over other apps that business are going to hold off on buying Windows 2000 upgrades and putting a halt on MS production. MS will probably push the OS sooner rather than later.

        averyc doesn't have a string on his back either. Sorry averyc, I would like to edit my earlier post.

      • five04 says:

        my lord man you're a total idiot.

        also learn when to use "you're" and "your." you seem to be having problems with that.

      • AlacrityFitzhugh says:

        If you must edit other peoples posts then you should at least try to make your posts decent. I guess I have to point out that in English when we start a sentence we always captialize the first character... Try to get it right next time, okay? (lol)

      • superrcat says:

        Stupid people who download illegal warez..the read me notes say it is not beta 2.

      • kether2012 says:

        Who cares, who cares, WHO CARES???

        Am i the only one who find these continuous threads a waste of time... every time efront release a new microsoft story every geek has to twitter on about 'builds' and 'betas' and 'warez' and their little pet theories on software and who's knows more about computers than any one else...

        look anyone who want to spend the time downloading a warez copy of windows deseved the BE a beta tester, i mean christ, that quite an large file, no... theses people should be paid by microsoft not paying... their information should be highly valueable....

        another point for all those computer 'experts' windows XP means consumer 'eXPerience'... please move to linux if your into solving complex problems or filling your head with silly facts to make yourself look clever in forums like this ... windows is dumming down and prettying up... maybe it should be called Windows PD (Pretty Dumb) ... (like most 'average' computer users!) you see...

      • chrismarts says:

        Well I don't know about "all that" but I will second the "WHO CARES" part... who cares if it is beta 2 or beta 3 or RC 4.5!?! Why do people think they're so damn intelligent and important because they know exactly what the latest "interim build of a beta product" is called and feel it compulsory to point out anyone who makes a mistake on this? It's a beta copy of some kind... it has been started, but not finished. Whether it's build 2448 or 2449 is really mostly unimportant...!

      • Griz says:

        well, obviously you, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten such a passionate response. if you don't care, don't read it. it isn't that difficult.

      • ronnydahl says:

        err.. "use head before opening mouth" (old Indian saying)

      • paul13usa says:

        going to be pretty hard for me to take win2000 off my machine.evevrything works scsci,firewire,dvd ,cdrw dosen,t blue screen no freezes.im running sp2 beta on a 933p3,640megs of ram.mr gates i think a'll stick with this has long as i can,took me to long to get this setup the way i want it.thank you

      • CPUGuy says:

        Please learn to put one space after commas, and to spaces after periods. It makes for much easier reading.

      • CPUGuy says:

        Whoops, to = two

      • CPUGuy says:

        Another term for "dumbing down" would be making it easier to use... MS is making WindowsXP easier to use, while in the meantime, there are SOOOOO many more options that you can do, skinning being one of them... although, MS has said that they will not rlease info on how to skin, we are fighting that in the NG's.

        Tell me, what's wrong with having an OS that is easier to use, and more functional?

      • jedilord says:

        As far as I know...MS will not release or support any product used for skinning Whistler..er XP. Although it can be done with time in hand. :)
        It's like, Hey MS, add this feature.
        MS: Okay, no. We'll add it to the next Windows version so you'll have to upgrade. I think the only thing we(beta testers) got accross to MS is to have transparent icon text on the desktop and even that's a trick to enable if you don't read carefully. :)

      • Draginol says:

        Jedi, you're right (as usual). Microsoft doesn't want people to be making their own visual styles -- to the point that they broke the hacked ones floating around.

        Apple did the same thing with Platinum, they put in hooks to make it easier to customize and that's when Kaleidoscope took off. Microsoft's message is basically "We reserve the right to provide a few different alternative looks for Windows for branding but if you want to extend what we do or make your own, then get WindowBlinds."

    • Kayler says:

      Beta 2 doesn't come put until the end of the month.

  2. rb-338.com says:

    Get some more screenshots over here..

    http://rb-338.com/whistler.html

    • PappaDj says:

      Your site looks nice. Can you ftp me an image file before your site get's brought down?

    • poiuqwer says:

      Thanks for the site. But, uh, you don't really listen to eminem, do you?!

      • rb-338.com says:

        ROFLMAO

        No, I don't listen to Eminem. I put in that song because I knew someone would say something like that :) IMHO, Eminem sucks, but that's off the topic.

    • Neo8234 says:

      "NEW! I have installed Windows XP build 2428 on my computer and made some screenshots of it. Check them out at the screenshots page!"

      oh, I guess that means that paul thurrot's http://www.winsupersite.com & http://www.wininfo.com stole YOUR screenshots? get a life

      • rb-338.com says:

        Err, that text was to note that I've added my own screenshots to the page, so you should open your eyes (and I'm not saying that you should get a life, because I don't know you so I can't say anything like that - same goes for you since you don't know me either (which is a good thing))

  3. PappaDj says:

    In case you don't know what Luna is:

    "Luna is one of two interfaces Microsoft will deliver as part of Windows XP; the company also plans to allow customers to choose the existing Windows interface.

    Luna will offer customers a more streamlined Windows look. It retains the Windows Start button but makes Internet connectivity, e-mail access and interaction with system settings via the Control Panel more intuitive."

    It looks as if Windows is going to broaden the ability to control more on the OS. There are further talks of allowing companies to have access or conrtol on how the OS functions. Sounds almost like... what's the word... open source. Would be nice but this is only a rumor.

  4. Gurm says:

    I love the astonishing level of journalistic integrity eFront displays. "Raving about the new interface" is only true if you mean they are raving mad, or raving lunatics.

    This new interface is horrible, and is singularly hated by everyone I've talked to. It should be called Windows FP, for Fisher Price. Perhaps "My First OS", with an "ages 1-3" on it would be helpful.

    Yuck.

    - Gurm

    • controler says:

      You know? I have tried to get into M$ beta testing for years now
      and can not. Either they think they are too good for me or are age
      discriminate. I beta test for Symantec and Executive software
      and they have no trouble with me being 48 Y.O.
      And whats the big deal about leaking windozs? It gets the software out there for bugs to be found. M$ allready has it's reporting software loaded. You really think they don't know who has their software running? Have YOU ever worked with the NSA?

      • DigitalSin says:

        I would hazard a guess and say they discriminate against you because

        a) Your English is poor
        b) Your attitude towards "leaking windoz" is not that of a prospective beta tester.

    • RedBadger says:

      I think the screen shots look great that I have seen of it. Most people I know of love Whistler.

      Of course I'm sure all the Linux users will be out in full force to try to trash it. Linux goes the opposite way, uglier and harder to use is apparently better to them.

      • Kayler says:

        Hey untill Windows began with the win2k kernel there was nothing worth using. Whats wrong with Linux pre Redhat 7.0. Linux was one of the most stable operating systems around. Can you prove that before the win2k kernel Microsoft had had a stable operating system. Hey if all you care about is how the operating system looks and not how it works, I heard the new MAC/OS is gonna look pretty spiffy.

      • Jay_ says:

        RedHat != Linux.

      • Snag says:

        And Coka-Cola != brown

        have you ever used Red Hat? Do you know what a distro or a flavour (flavor for our American friends :) is...Red Hat is as much Linux as the Mustang is Ford!

      • CPUGuy says:

        Ahh... thank you for taking out the darn stupid "u" British spelling.

      • Snag says:

        Uhm, just so you know I am not British (nor am I American). And I prounce it "about" not "aboot"... :P

      • CPUGuy says:

        Regaurdless, it's still a British spelling.

      • Snag says:

        Ok, i typoed Coca-Cola...

        Also, quit trying to be so 31337 with your boolean operators. I don't think it truly impresses anyone here...I think the word NOT would have sufficed

      • Kayler says:

        Jay I'm so glad you pointed that out to me!!! Wow does that mean Mandrake=Linux or have I just been a complete moron since 1994 when I started using Redhat 4.2. If you read my message you would realize I'm not to big of a Linux supporter anymore since Linus stopped doing kernel development. And also for the fact I work at MS.

      • Neo8234 says:

        umm... Linus still does kernel development...

      • Kayler says:

        Show me where, since the last kernel drop he has offically announced he will stop dev on it.

      • Neo8234 says:

        there was an interview with him about 2 weeks on techweb. He said he has no plans to stop working on the kernel, despite outside pressure. Though he doesn't do ALL of the coding himself, he is still the one who chooses whether or not to implement something, and he does do some coding on his own.
        http://www.planetit.com/techcenters/docs/desktop-linux/news/PIT20010130S0003

      • worlok says:

        I guess that we don't. Apparently M$ is doing a fine job of turning alot of people off to their fluff without us firing a shot.

        I read these comments here and it surprises me just how many of you actually:

        a) like this crap,
        b) actively try to get this crap,
        c) just don't understand what Linux or UNIX is and the plethora of Window Managers that simply blow away the Windows GUI, both cosmetically AND functionally,

        and

        d) are willing to pay through the nose for digital music and go along willingly with M$'s software that will enforce further music ripoff's of consumers and artists by the recording labels.

        You can take your Windows XP, your M$ media player, and put 'em where the sun don't shine.

        HAVE A NICE DAY!

      • sgraffa1 says:

        While I've read much of the postings concerning the new Windows-XP; from its supposive under-the-hood enhancements to the wonderful kindergarden like desktop, I don't understand why a new operating system was necessary. After all, WinMe is barely 5 months old since its release on Sept.14. My point is simple; if MS was building this grand XP system, than why bother with Me? I believe the reason was to create a sounding board type of os. One that would push the 9x family into the grave and bring about the future of NT based systems on all computers. This scenrio does hold up in some respects. For instance, Windows Me's lack of real-dos drivers, no reboot to a dos prompt, incapatibility with certain 9x software, hard to upgrade present software unless it meets with Me's requirements and so on. Another interesting point I find is there hasn't been one bug fix much less a service pack offered, and believe me it can use it. I really don't think we'll be seeing any type of fixes in the near future as XP is definitely on its way. Windows Me is simply a link from what was to what will be.

      • OpCode42 says:

        Suffice to say, if this was my windowmanager, I'd soon change it.

        Big icons may be great for first time users, but after a while they'll get very annoying. The colours (colors, whatever) are terrible. No contrast on that taskbar between active / inactive tasks. Ok, you can skin it. So what. Other windowmanagers have had this for quite a while.

        http://www.enlightenment.org/shots/g8.jpg is the theme I'm currently using in Enlightenment (my windowmanager of choice). Take a look windows users, you might like it.

    • area51 says:

      More JUNK!!

    • hutchinj says:

      I understand speaking your mind but GROWUP what did someone take your
      HAPPY MEAL?

      • Gurm says:

        My primary point is that Betanews repeatedly reports what the company wants them to report, not "news". Nobody is raving over this new interface unless they are 3 and like the pretty colors.

        Gotta love journalistic integrity. (Not that you, from your worldly perspective telling me to "GROWUP", know about journalistic integrity!)

        - Gurm

    • powerlifter says:

      Absolutely! The interface does something I thought was impossible: it blows and sucks at the same time. Makes me feel like I've just
      been potty trained.

      My hit list:
      Smaller icons please (or at least an option)
      All the depth lost on controls
      Look, I've used my interfaces over my career. HIG (Human Interface
      Guidelines) help people use systems. I can't tell where my scroll
      bar starts and ends with these washed-out colors. Depth helps
      people identify the controls, and then use them.
      Get rid of all the garbage apps!
      If I want video editing software, I'll go buy it. And a good one.
      Like Premiere. Focus on making the OS solid, less boots, and
      opening up interfaces so that _other companies_ can make great
      apps on top of it. Video editing, IMHO, is not an OS component;
      here's another example of MS monopoly power.
      Wasted space!
      Look at this snap: http://lightning.prohosting.com/~rb338/whistler/xp_6.jpg
      Look at all that wasted space on the left pane! My good, as my
      old coach would say, you can drive a Mach truck through that
      space. Please, I prefer a much crisper, less pedantic look.

      All in all, I think this interface only makes the case for WindowBlinds, DesktopX, and ObjectBar more strong. When I get my copy, the first thing I'm doing is finding the shell= line in the registry and changing it.

      • Draginol says:

        Microsoft is adding a ton of new APIs that will allow third parties like Stardock to create all sorts of customization programs.

        Windows XP will bring customization to the masses. Those who make programs that extend that customization stand to do well.

    • FirstHoju says:

      Don't know about you guys but I'm not getting XP until Litestep becomes available for it.

  5. bobbyworld says:

    Why does anyone care so much about being a beta tester? You get pre released software, that's buggiest as S**t and can't wait for the fact for it to F up your machine to help Microsoft build a "better OS".

    Go call your 2 Legit to Quit phone # and rat out those evil warez people who are interested in previewing the OS will out signing their life away with "Evil Redmond" with a NDA.

    boo hiss

    Sounds like a lack of a real life to get your panties in a wad over it. Or is it to compesate for the people that boss you around all day, cause your the lowest scum on the corporate ladder?

    • DigitalSin says:

      "Previewing the OS". *cough cough* Yeah, I'm sure your average IQ-challenged warez pup is going to try the OS and after a week say "Hmm, now this looks like an operating system that seriously enhances my productivity, as well as helps me unleash the true power of my PC. Mommy, buy this for me please?"

      These are the same people who won't pay $5 a month for napster because they think they're entitled to getting something free because they can dialup to the 'net.

  6. DigitalSin says:

    That's a little confusing though. Does that mean only Media Player would force these "digital rights", or it's done at the OS level and any mp3 player would do this?

  7. NECRO says:

    Well, I'm sure that if Microsoft actually implements such a thing someone will make a hack to bypass it.

  8. ErbyStang says:

    Windows XP seems to be, on the surface at least, a mix of Windows 2000, Windows 98/ME, and Window Blinds. However, I installed a beta version of Whistler onto my ThinkPad. I ran WhiteCap, a VIS plug-in for Winamp, and it ran very, very slow. I ran the same thing on Windows Whistler beta and it ran smooth as butter. My DVDs also played very roughly and now with Windows XP, they run smooth as well.
    So it may be worth the upgrade! However, I would recommend tons of RAM when you do. It's so cheap now, its worth it.

    -ErbyStang

  9. rb-338.com says:

    I've installed this new build today and made some more screenshots...

    Check them out at:

    http://rb-338.com/whistler.html

    Btw, I like this new interface...it looks very childish on the screenshots but once you're using it and got used to the colours and rounded corners, it's very nice.

    This release is again very stable, installed without any problems and will be my primary OS from now on.

    • maneufeld says:

      any chance you will eventually add this build to your whistler-download page?

    • doicare says:

      What IRC channel are you hanging out in in the screenshots?

      • rb-338.com says:

        I'm always on irc.mirc.net, channels #mirc, #scriptz and #axis.
        But please note, I'm not going to upload Windows XP to anybody, since it'll take way too long (my upstream sux ;(). It's always nice to have some peeps around though :)

    • mfaria207 says:

      nice job, build look different, its kind of nice to at least see microsoft trying something different. as for the skinning info not being released, it wont be long before thats taken care of

    • stubear says:

      A couple things...

      could you get rid of that annoying user/password dialog on the home page of this site?

      Second, I'd like to see a few screenshots of things like the appearance/themes control panel option and perhaps the new theme against a new background pic. I think some peoples objections to the OS might be eliminated by changing this to a solid color or something like the watercolor image from earlier releases of beta 1.

      I'd also like to see a couple more shots of IE 6.0 and the personal bar functionality. I'm curious to see how they are rounding off the rough edges the personal bar has from earlier screenshots.

      If I can think of anymore I'll let you know.

      • stubear says:

        I know what I forgot. I noticed on the MS screenshots they FINALLY have transparent text backgrounds on their icons but on your screenshots the text backgrounds of the icons are not transparent? Is this a feature you have turned off?

      • rb-338.com says:

        I'll add a Personal Bar screenshot from IE6 and some desktop options (with themes etc.) tomorrow.

        I'll also remove the popup window :)

        The icon text without background colour..well I have no idea where they've hidden the feature, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the desktop properties.

        Thanks for your feedback :)

      • CPUGuy says:

        If you haven't found it yet, then you are missing a WHOLE bunch of new stuff.

      • rb-338.com says:

        Heheh I found it..and no I didn't miss a bunch of features, because I had already seen the dialog it's in (My Computer, Properties, Advanced, Performance Settings) but just not the option ;)

      • stubear says:

        Thanks,

        Nice job by the way. I'm glad someone is giving us some more previews of the oS though I'm going to wait for the public RCs to come out before I give the OS a shot. I tried the earlier beta 1 release you posted but I didn't keep it around too long. Not alot of hard drive space to allocate to a seperate OS (gotta save it for digital video and rendered files) but I might be able toreplace my current OS with teh public RCs if teh OS is as stable as everyone is stating.

    • danurve says:

      the duck has to go

  10. controler says:

    poor english? ya sure you betcha but I am still 100 times smarter than you :-) I have forgoten way more than you will ever know.
    Umm I don't have anything against WARWAS yet but can.
    what do you know about electronics? Nada I am sure.
    You want to spit shit ? go cry to mama.
    I dought anyone that hangs here has a real life ha ha

  11. five04 says:

    it appears that microsoft just keeps adding crap to make their os run slower. i'm not a big fan of skinning programs due to the fact that the skins always slow it down. maybe not on a small scale like winamp but on a big os there could be problems. i've only used beta 1 and thought the interface was pretty nice. seems they've thrown that out and replaced it with this horrible look. not everyone that uses a computer is a total idiot and needs bright colors to show them where things are. also, i'd really like to see microsoft stop trying to integrate the os with the internet. that's a really annoying thing. maybe it's because i use my computer for something other than surfing the internet. then again i have to remember that pretty much everybody has a computer and most of them are total idiots and just want to "check their mail" and go buy stuff online. microsoft will ruin themselves if they keep trying to please the computer illiterate.

    • stubear says:

      Since this is a skinable OS, MS will provide a couple variations for peopel to try and for those who don't want this functionality, they will also offer the ability to set things back pretty much the way they were.

      I don't hate the new default OS look and I haven't tried it out yet but I'm going to hold off judgement until I do. I suggest you do the same.

      As for speed, by adding it to the OS you will see a huge improvement in performance. The skinned apps that run now have to do so by adding another layer to the windowing system that will surely bog the OS down. Much like IE being sped up by running it as an OS service, running the window skinning functionality as an OS service will also speed it up. Keep in mind that there will be no primary windowing layer that the skinning functionality will have to run on. The skinning functionality IS the windowing system now.

      • powerlifter says:

        You only get performance penalties when the OS is designed poorly.

        On Macs, in the WindowManager, you could create a window procedure for how your window should be drawn. Every window had such a handle.

        With MS, you have to hack the core routines to do what you want, setting up strange dispatches. The end result, a set of linked DLLs that yes, does perform more slowly.

        So, if you buy a pair of size 12 shoes, do you complain and wear them (assuming you're not a size 12)? No, you get ones that fit you. Shoes are properly architected, giving each user what they need to fit them. If Windows would follow the same route and create a better dispatch for window rendering, then perhaps you would not see all the problems you do.

        BTW--I would _NOT_ run my Win2K system with WindowBlinds.

      • CPUGuy says:

        FYI, Whistler doesn't use the same skinning method as Windowblinds... intercepting API's and drawing their own interface, while, this is what was done in beta1, it hasn't been done since 2410, I believe, now, it has it's own API's, and it's pretty darn fast, in fact, I don't notice a difference in performance anymore between the standard UI and a skinned UI, like Watercolor or Luna.

      • Lupo says:

        I don't notice a difference in performance anymore between the standard UI and a skinned UI, like Watercolor or Luna.

      • Lupo says:

        ups my question disappeard!
        under what conditions(see above)? cpu,ram, video ?

      • CPUGuy says:

        On either of my two testings systems.

        900mhz T-Bird w/ 256mb of RAM and a Geforce256

        500mhz Athlon w/ 256mb of RAM and a TNT2

        Also, I would like to point out that I did notice a pretty significant difference between the two in beta1 and 2410.

      • Draginol says:

        Wrong CPU Guy. Whistler 2428 intercepts the NC_PAINT message to do its titlebars, borders and title bar buttons, and scrollbars which is where the bulk of the work is. Only the push buttons are part of the actual controls.

        Let me spell it out: Visual styles are **NOT** faster than WindowBlinds. There are a half dozen publicly available GUI benchmarking programs that will tell you the same thing.

      • stubear says:

        That was my point exactly. On the Mac the window drawing was handled by the resource files. You could hack them and voila, but this was part of the normal OS functions and there was no performance hit. In contrast, as you pointed out, WindowBlinds uses hooks MS built into the OS and added another layer of .dll's which cause awful performance. Windows XP is going to go more in the direction of MacOS, albeit i their own fashion. comctl32.dll will handle ALL the windowing calls to the OS and will have the new Luna interface calls built in. No more performance hit from extra window calls.

      • tockwell says:

        Whistler uses the same methods of intercepting API calls and drawing it's own as WB does, The 'real' interfact in still underneth

      • Draginol says:

        Exactly.

        http://www.geocities.com/draginol/Image7.jpg

        If you look closely at the MDI child window glitch there, it's pretty apparent that Whistler is painting on TOP of the GUI. WindowBlinds is actually more advanced than that, it integrates more closely with the UI so you won't get situations where the MDI child buttons are painted with old ones too showing up slightly offset.

        It's pretty shocking to see how one guy would happily run Whistler's visual styles but wouldn't run windowblinds on Win2k. I suppose if we slapped Microsoft on WindowBlinds and renamed it visual styles it would suddenly be nifty to those people. To some people, it doesn't matter whether something is faster, more reliable, more integrated, better, and easier to use, if it doesn't have Microsoft slapped on it, they'll find an excuse not to use it.

      • Draginol says:

        Man, I'm getting so tired of people posting misinformation.

        First of all, WindowBlinds isn't slow. It hasn't been slow in a very very long time. And was certainly never slow on Whistler. It's very frustrating seeing people who tried some old version of WindowBlinds on Windows 98 or something say how fast Whistler's going to be (even though they haven't used it) because they think (wrongly) that visual styles are integrated. Visual styles are like a very basic version of WB that got licensed and bundled.

        WindowBlinds on Whistler is just as fast as the visual styles. API hooking has virtually no overhead. Any performance hit that exists is basically the time it takes to stretch and blit a bitmap into a region. Everything else is insignificant. And Whistler's visual styles work exactly the same was WindowBlinds does.

      • CPUGuy says:

        While I haven't used the latest version of Windowblinds, I have used 2.0, it was a major improvement to the 1.x versions, but it was still slow... and no, I haven't run Win9x since Win2k came out in Februrary.

        Finally, I do use Whistler, I test Whistler.

      • Draginol says:

        There is no scenario where visual styles are faster than WindowBlinds skins when running similar skins. If you think WindowBlinds is slow, then you must think visual styles are slow.

      • Draginol says:

        No, skinning functionality is not in the OS now, stubar. It's still intercepting the NC_PAINT message in 2428.

        Not that this matters. API hooking is a neglibible overhead issue. The overhead in any skinning is the time it takes to stretch bitmaps to fit a region. So even if they were to eventually make this stuff part of the actual GUI rather than "skinning" it, the performance difference would be nil.

        People in the Stardock news groups have been benchmarking WB and visual styles since Beta 1 and when running similar skins, not once has visual styles been shown to be faster.

    • DV26 says:

      "Microsoft will ruin themselves if they keep trying to please the computer illiterate."
      I doubt it, Look at AOL.

    • nim3k says:

      I totally agree. I mean I have Beta 1 and I think it looks great. Then Microsoft comes out with this new UI. I think it's kind of nice, but when I look closer at it, it looks tacky and cheap. I hate things that look tacky. It looks alot like MSN Explorer, which isn't too bad because it's functional and I can put up with a browser that looks like that. I can see why they'd make a web browser for the "computer illiterate". But this really puts me off, cuz when I look at Whistler Beta 1 I'm really impressed with how classy and cool they made it. I just hope that a "skin" for this OS comes out that gives it a really classy but cool look, i don't care if it slows down my system cuz that look is way too tacky for me

      • snarfo says:

        Since you can switch back to the 'Classic' Windows interface, I don't mind MS adding some extra GUI fluff like Apple does. However, my only concern is that I hope MS doesn't lose their focus and follow Apple's form-over-function approach. The Windows interface as it is now is very, very usable with a huge number of little thoughtful efficient touches. The Mac OS (all flavors, including X) is pretty, but not as functional. OS X will sell more to the toothless yokels shopping for somethin' purrrty, of course, since they seem to want their os to look like the candy-colored iMacs.

    • SoftTouch says:

      Their seems to be a common pattern here. Every time microsoft get's their OS to properly support a new platform, they make it a tradition to change the user interface. Windows 3.0 :: Win platform, Windows 95:: the Win32 platform, Windows XP:: .NET platform.

  12. nfotxn says:

    You gotta admit, it looks an awful lot like Mac OS X.

    • stubear says:

      Please explain how it looks an awful lot like OS X. I keep harning people tell me this but I disagre. I might have some similarities but by the same token one could say OS X looks an awful lot like WIndows 2000. They now have three buttons grouped together for maximize, minimize and close. They have a preview pane that can disaply contents of certain file types without having to opne them and the dock. While the dock might not look a lot like the WIndows 95 taskbar, it resembles its functionality a great deal as an application switcher and background app display area (system tray).

      All OS X hs on XP is the rounded edges and even those are different in design and implementation. All OS X'x rounded edges are for the pill shaped buttons. And if you are going to say the X was stolen from Applpe, think again. MS has bene using X in quite a bit of their marketing; DirectX, ActiveX and X-Box all come to mind and all predate OS X by quite some time.

      • CPUGuy says:

        Not to mention I heard about the Luna interface back in the days of Windows Neptune by an article written by Dvorak. This was many moons before Aqua was even heard of.

      • superrcat says:

        LMAO...have you ever SEEN MAC OS X? Based on Windows 2000 interface? Explain that one. Be a little more educated before you make a statement like that.

      • stubear says:

        Did you happen to notice the three buttons for maximize, minimze and close grouped together on the main window title bar? How about the dock? While the taskbar and teh dock do not look similar, they perform the same function. Don't forget the 'new' preview pane Mas OS X has. looks an awful lot like the preview function Windows 2000 has when you turn on web views inside folders. Not to mention the ability to customize your folder views with HTML to have them perform basically how you want (i.e. I can make nay folder function like the My Pictures folder with an image preview.) Granted Mac OS X previews more file types up front but the functionality was first used in Windows. Was this educated enough for you? I could go on if you need me to. Colorful GUIs aside, Mac OS X is far more a copy of WIndows in functionality than Windows XP is of OS X.

      • compdocsuckdeaddogsdick says:

        As I am aware, doesn't Microshaft have shares in Apple, giving Microshaft and Apple both rights to both features...

      • chris_kabuki says:

        What does share ownership have to do with it? And further how does Apple get entitlements due to Microsoft owning some of their shares? It usually works the other way if at all.

      • johns713 says:

        It's called a settlement. Gee wiz. I think that the Mac ie team did one heck of a sales job. But I wonder, have you ever read or seen any of the features that apple wanted in Copeland back in 95. Copeland was to be the next great apple os then.

      • johns713 says:

        What are you talking about? If you recall, only a few short years ago apple and micro$oft were crying foul at each other because apple said microsoft took there ui. And if you don't know, the X in MacOS X stands for the roman numerial 10. Given the choice I would galdly chose a *nix box over windows, and have. *nix is more stable, yeah I know, but the nt kerenl is great, it stays up forever. Ask yourself this, why do sites like download.com and cdrom.com use *nix? More importantly, why is that any quality network admin, (note this means you only really know win98 but use the those skills to work something out on nt/2k then get certified) trust *nix more than anything else? XP? That is a joke. More junk. Seriously, who runs a nt box (same as 2k) as a server and has it running 2 or more server applications like a httpd and dns on it without having to reboot the thing less than once a month? Now as the same of a *nix box.

      • NXTwoThou says:

        Maybe they run it, because they are never sitting in front of it?

        I work on all the machines that run services here, daily. I want an easy to use OS that puts everything at my fingertips and if I don't know a concept, just right click on the field I don't know and get help on it and continue to fill it in right there. Not spend my time looking through man pages, searching newsgroups for answers, digging through code, etc.

        The huge sites use *nix, because they want to set something up once and never touch it again, so they want the smallest possible footprint for the most possible users. Some of us want something completely different, usability.

        I bought a sports car because I drive it everyday, its pretty, it has all sorts of neat cup holders, hidden storage, comfy molded seats, trim, etc. I'm proud to drive it. I have a friend that drives an old volkswagon bug, completely tweaked it out, it'll probably never die, and if it does, he had a huge network of people he can run to to help get parts. Spends most of his free time working on it. The most I do is wash mine and do regular maintence. Then I spend the rest of my time enjoying what point B my car took me to. Its a matter of taste and purpose.

        Not intended as yet another war front, just a different perspective. If I had the free time to play with my car, I would. Lots of things I can do, but not nearly as easy as the volkswagon, and I'd be more hesitant to as well due to it being harder to sell later on and it was designed from the begining to have all of the features so its hard to really do anything to it except pretty up its outside. ugh, I'm ranting, you get my point.

      • stubear says:

        Explain to me why major Fortune companies are using Windows if it is so unreliable? Barnes and Noble.com has their whole eCommerce system up and running on Windows 2000. Quit spreading FUD about Windows, which you clearly know nothing about. And quit lumping Linux in with UNIX. It's not a real UNIX OS.

  13. IssacNewton says:

    Don't get me wrong . I am all for the development and have enjoyed it's perks. This is addressing the gentleman below who is 48 yoa.
    It should have occurred to you by now that if you are a bread winner and possibly could afford an MSDN or Tech-Net subscription that you would not be of any consequence unless they held out to see if you would purchase one of these items. You have to remember that microsoft is a business. They are here for profit and if you rate as potential business and haven't been on the front page of any news latley for your accomplishments in the programming field , then you are just a potential customer. My interest prior to the release of this OS is merely curiousity not warranting the purchase of a subscription yet. I have my hands busy at least trying to master what is layed before me currently. When I have finished through datacenter server , then I might buy a tech-net but I figure that my money at that point will be best spent upgrading my knowledge through XP if it's all that extensive. If not then when I finish catching up , I will buy a tech-net providing I can keep up with the hardware advances and still afford it. I too placed my name with beta but I do not expect to hear anything until I satisfy at least one of the things I listed above. I guess if I had an MCSE , then I might get an offer so I am dealing with that currently. Real world experiences are a great with the applications but full analytical knowledge of features is a must.
    Posssibly development of programs within the system while testing it would be what they are looking for and the ones who do will be an asset to them. It would be nice if they could go public beta with an OS but it would not be profitable not to mention the security end of the technology. SO in conclusion a Technet + programming knowledge =
    possible beta tester if you are self supporting, but an MSDN enterprise subscription buys you what you want whether you can satisfy any of the requirements or not hehe. Thanks for listening.
    Issac

  14. peytonrm says:

    This is off topic but; why is it that Gates does almost all of the announcements? I mean he is only a chairman now, when was the last time you saw a chairman of some other company make an announcement? You are welcome to disregard this, I just had to say something.

    • CPUGuy says:

      And what does the chairman do? He is the speaker. And what else is he? He is the Chief Software Architect. And what else is he? The founder of Microsoft. And what else is he? The richest man in America.

      • peytonrm says:

        It looks like I didnt make my point clear. I was trying to say that gates claims to have "stepped down" and yet he still seems to be acting as the ceo. What I cant figure is why he would take a lower position if he still wants to be ceo.

      • Squareball says:

        I think he stepped down so that if/when MS would be broken up... he could head up one department and Paul Allen could do the other. Not sure, but that is my guess.
        But you do make a very good point none the less....

      • chrismarts says:

        Hrm... CEO's are usually involved in the business of the company and it should be more surprising that he was doing it *before,* not now. Either way, the above post is right... he's the founder, he's the main guy, etc... who else but to make these announcements? He's "stepped down" from the CEO position but really he's just stepped "sideways" and still being the figurehead of the company is completely consistent with that.

  15. fireitup says:

    Does Windows XP have the fast boot (or whatever it was called) option that Neptune had? With fast boot, I was able to boot in 10 seconds flat! When this happened the first time, I almost cried. ICQ and my tray programs loaded instantly when the windows desktop appeared. In the past Whistler betas, I haven't seen this amazing feature. Why wouldn't MS incorporate this feature in their latest OS? It would be the biggest OS breakthrough in the past few years.

    • ruvreve says:

      Who cares if your computer boots in 10 seconds? You should be more worried about your computer being able to remain on and stable for more then a day or two at a time. I would MUCH rather have a 10 minute bootup time and leave my PC on for 4 months without having to reboot then to have a 10 second bootup time and have to reboot every other day. The only bad part to this would be when your troubleshooting and having to reboot often.

      • NXTwoThou says:

        Some of us are the types that like to turn off the lights when we leave a room.

        Same thing goes for my computer. My electric bill was 27 dollars last month. :P So I'm senstive to the time it takes to start up my computer. I'm not running any servers on it, so whats the point in leaving it on? A screen saver to amuse my cats?

      • CPUGuy says:

        I've been running Win2k Pro for a year now, and it's never once crashed.

        WinXP is only an improvment to Win2k.

  16. maneufeld says:

    Will a betanews genius please give me details concerning the registry key included in the release notes. for those of you who are testers, the release notes do a very poor job of sufficiently explaining the use of key.

    No, I am not a waraz kid!

  17. jerryiii says:

    Isn't that fast boot just plain hibernation? That saves the whole OS state to a harddrive and then just restores it ... sounds like a fast boot to me ... And since Windows 2000 has it I doubt that the next version won't ...

    • CPUGuy says:

      While I don't know if he's talking about hibernation or not... WindowsXP certainly boots a lot faster than previous versions of NT, possibly even a little faster than WinMe, but then again, I haven't seen WinMe run since the final beta, many months ago.

    • fireitup says:

      I believe that it was some form of hibernation. When I reboot or power on, the computer starts in 10 seconds. How can this be activated in windows 2000?

  18. CPUGuy says:

    The rights management is already there.

    Try and rip a CD with Media Player 7 and then try to play it on another computer, it won't work.

    Now, in Media Player 8, you have the ability to turn it off, as well as rip to MP3 or WMA.

  19. gideon says:

    Better intro to XP ::cough::

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/

    Although not technical in nature, (and while the other URL just introduces those who have an interest in coding on the new platform), this is a good intro for those of us who look for the eye candy in it all :)

  20. Kennywins says:

    Bloat.

  21. rjames says:

    hello everyone. I looked at the windowsxp pics. and man i am very impress. i was wondering if there is a website that i can go to download a beta version of windowsxp.

  22. ady199 says:

    Has anyone got a WORKING download link for Whistler 2432..??

  23. majphace says:

    Looks like a pile of shit to me.!

  24. ddibbley says:

    Who wants to deal with this excersize in control. One i dont want to deal with activating my operating system evertime i change something.
    I change my systems a lot. Two this is just the start of thier change from selling software to renting or leasing thier software. If they are sucessfull in this change over we as consumers will suffer with very high costs to run our home systems. like paying MS 150 [each system] or more a year [every year] to have a operating system and office installed. If you own the software you buy you are protected by laws so that you some rights to it. On the other hand if you rent or lease you basically give up your rights and the company can dictate exactly what they see fit at any givin time. Think about that, do you really want MS to have total control. I can see every year new fee's being added. This is the direction MS is headed for the consumer market. Probaly because corporate sales are becoming a hard sell for upgrades. So they are seeing the comsumer market as a prime target for keeping thier revenue and growth moving steadily upward.
    People just NO to this movement now, before its to late, send a clear message to MS by not buying into thier plan Just say no to winxp. until they come to thier sense's. I'm wondering if SP2 for win2000 [which is badly needed} will be released before the launch of XP or maybe they will just never realease it making XP more inviting.

    Highlights of Gates' speech include this boasting of WindowsXP, saying "Windows XP builds on their dreams"

    Bill is certainly right its thier dream not mine!!!!

  25. ddibbley says:

    Who wants to deal with this excersize in control. One i dont want to deal with activating my operating system evertime i change something.
    I change my systems a lot. Two this is just the start of thier change from selling software to renting or leasing thier software. If they are sucessfull in this change over we as consumers will suffer with very high costs to run our home systems. like paying MS 150 [each system] or more a year [every year] to have a operating system and office installed. If you own the software you buy you are protected by laws so that you some rights to it. On the other hand if you rent or lease you basically give up your rights and the company can dictate exactly what they see fit at any givin time. Think about that, do you really want MS to have total control. I can see every year new fee's being added. This is the direction MS is headed for the consumer market. Probaly because corporate sales are becoming a hard sell for upgrades. So they are seeing the comsumer market as a prime target for keeping thier revenue and growth moving steadily upward.
    People just NO to this movement now, before its to late, send a clear message to MS by not buying into thier plan Just say no to winxp. until they come to thier sense's. I'm wondering if SP2 for win2000 [which is badly needed} will be released before the launch of XP or maybe they will just never realease it making XP more inviting.

    Highlights of Gates' speech include this boasting of WindowsXP, saying "Windows XP builds on their dreams"

    Bill is certainly right its thier dream not mine!!!!

    • CPUGuy says:

      Stop spreading untrue propaganda.

      First, you ONLY have to activate Windows when you install it, and that only requires a click of the yes radio button and you hit next.

      Second, XP is NOT .net enabled, and therefore, is not subscription based.

      Finally, you are a blithering idiot, I'm getting sick and tired of you people that think MS can dictate how you use the software when you rent it and all that BS, not only would they get taken to court for it, but they would probably lose the case.

      Why don't you get a life, or at the very least, actually read about what .net is.

      • Kayler says:

        Your right I does support .net, but is not subscription based. The next version of Windows will be though, and It won't take a restart everytime updated.

      • ddibbley says:

        Yet...........................It will be

      • Kayler says:

        Not in XP, I'm talking in 2004. I work here I know this stuff.

      • ddibbley says:

        WHo is the fool here? Read past your nose. It's their waiting little guy you just believe all the propaganda. This is just the start. A little at a time. As far as grammer [email protected]!#! you i'm not an english schloar and never what to be.
        Just a bunch of 16 year old peabrains. And of coarse you have all the answears today [just for today]. You think staticly instead of dynamic. What i have said will come true sooner than you think and than you will be crying.
        hmmm product activation. You certainly seem to know a lot about it why dont you post your EXPERIENCE on this matter so we can all be enlightened.

      • CPUGuy says:

        Want me to give you the entire outline of Activation straight out of the XP NG's from an MS developer there?

      • ddibbley says:

        No need. I already read it but maybe you should.

      • CPUGuy says:

        I'm USING it, I've been using it since build 2416

      • CPUGuy says:

        Activation, that is.

    • snarfo says:

      No offense dude, but unless English is your second language, you really need to take some remedial language classes.

  26. Kennywins says:

    I personally think XP is a step in the wrong direction. With every subsequent release of Windows, Microsoft adds more shit to the OS that most people will never ever touch. In truth, who needs a Movie Maker. Or skinnable interface? Or a bloatware Media Player? Or two different desktop interfaces (Luna and Classic). For that matter, who needs paint?
    Now I understand that a some people might actually use these things from time to time. But for those of us who wish to run the leanest OS, XP leaves much to be desired. Because of the costlier nature of the NTFS, I would have loved it if Microsoft kept as much needless stuff off the OS.
    I can only hope that the rumor that every last piece of the OS, down to the core components, will be able to be customized and/or removed.

    • CPUGuy says:

      Would you please clarify by what you mean that NTFS is costly?

      Also, most of the stuff will be able to be uninstalled, btw, apps like paint have always had the option to be uninstalled.

      • Kennywins says:

        You're right, Paint has always been able to be uninstalled. the point is that some other things are not. These things include (but are not limited to) WMP7, Windows Movie Maker, Internet Explorer...The New Technology File System has tons of very necessary code that keeps it stable, but I wouldn't dream of runnin git without 192 megabytes of RAM. Now I have a Pentium 4, and RDRAM costs a buttloat. I would like to keep as much bloaty junk off my computer.
        Now I know you're gonna hate me for saying this (partly because Linux still isn't that great) but I think Microsoft could take a page from the RedHat Linux installation system. For those that want to get up and running, RedHat offers easy to get going "typical" installation routines. But for us techies out there, I would love to be able to piece my OS together, instead of being forced to use some crapped out piece of software if I want to keep an otherwise brilliant OS.

      • Kayler says:

        I'm sorry, but if you still are a redhat fan stick with them. I did until 7.0, but since the 2k kernel for windows was developed I don't see why not to use XP or 2k. Also If you do have the computer you claim to, then you should have the space. Crap I only have a k7-800 and I have 60+ GB of space. Which I do use, but hey 10GB is just music. Also right now I'm running the newest build off a p2-266 w/ 256 MB of ram (simms) and a 4gb scsi hard drive. Works great!!!

      • Kennywins says:

        I do have the computer to handle it, and I am not a redhat fan...but you literally have to be insane to want an Operating System chock-full of things you'll never use. That's just plain common sense. Nothing against Microsoft (die-hard supporter here) but you have to agree that a choice in what you want installed (in other words, a more hashed out "custom install" idea) would not be a bad thing.

      • Kayler says:

        Since your clarification, I have to agree. I do work here, and have only seen those features in the Personal version of XP. I have not looked at the pro version though. It might be more optional in what you install, but I am running server, which pretty much leaves all that out, and damn it is stable. I haven't had any sort of crash.

      • thar says:

        Linux RedHat has tons of security holes, it has hella dependancies, is hella hard to setup. Before you say that this person is a die-hard Micro$soft user... look I have Windows ME and 2k I have Redhat Linux 6.2, I have Mandrake 7.2, I have BeOS, I have MacOS X. I have computers to play around with. Windows is just fine for some people, come people edit it to fit their style. Linux is good for it uses. And Mac OS X is good because of it new POSIX due to darwin. I like computers and some OSs are better than others in SOME areas. No One os can do everything if so everyone would be using it!

      • CPUGuy says:

        I'm sorry, but I don't think you know anything about NTFS, heck, it performs better than any FAT fs, and is no doubt lightyears ahead of ext2 filesystem.

      • BlitzProductions says:

        Yes, NTFS is better. It supports bigger HD's and if you have alot of data on you hardrive it wont slow down like FAT32 does.

    • SoftTouch says:

      Haven't you ever heard the phrase "it what's on the inside that counts" , you wine about all the little lame user friendly stuff that you see on top, but inside Windows XP has a much more sofisticated, robust, and much more object oriented kernel. With a couple more steps in THIS direction, Windows will probably have the same amount of stability as BeOS, NeXT, or perhaps even UNIX.

      • Kennywins says:

        you guys, I wasn't trying to start a fight. I wasn't saying Linux is better, I was simply stating that it would be nice. IT WOULD BE NICE. Get that? I never said I would give Windows up. And for the asshole that said I don't know anything about NTFS, learn how to read. I never doubted its stability, all I said is that it is more costly on RAM, and as such, it would be nice for those of us who don't have the dough to spend (especially us with P4's that need expensice RDRAM) to have the ability to get rid of some of the bloatware programs that we never use.

      • Kennywins says:

        Sorry. Didn't mean to call anyone an asshole, but I got a little tired of being questioned. Seemed to me like, from the likes of some of the posts, MS could do no wrong. And yes, I know that it is what on the inside that counts. NTFS is amazing (running Windows 2000 right now) but I would just like a little more customizing power. That's all. Come on. I can' be the only one that wants this.

      • CPUGuy says:

        And read my response to you saying NTFS is costly. It just certainly is not, NTFS was used in NT4, which was run on P90's w/ 16mb of RAM.

        NTFS is a lot less costly than FAT, actually.

      • NXTwoThou says:

        Anyone that is a beta tester, if you've got the equipment. Do a test.

        Format a system NTFS, run some of the popular benchmarking programs.

        Format the same system FAT32, run some of the popular benchmarking programs.

        Post the results. Are posting speed ratings of the underlying file structure against the NDA?

        I for one, would really like to know the comparison...If XP is targeted towards my home computer, I don't exactly need security or recovering or auto defragmenting, since I can set defragger to start, go to the bathroom, and come back and its done, and since I don't plan on sharing my drive, don't quite need that extra level of security. So on a home machine, preformance would be the issue.

        My mothers operating system doesn't need to set user level directory security permissions, directory specific data compression/encryption, etc. She needs to want it to just to be fast so that she feels the investment was worth it.

      • maneufeld says:

        sir, one thing is for sure: disk defrag works much faster on a NTFS formated hard disk than the same hard disk formated FAT32. I have witnessed this fact time and time again.

      • NXTwoThou says:

        If I remember my advertising material way back when NTFS was first released, the file format itself is supposed to cut down on fragmentation in the first place, so there wouldn't be as much to defrag.

        And, acutaly, if you wanna know the truth, I've never seen a preformance improvement after defragging, on 2000 or 98SE. The last time I noticed a defragging speed boost was way back with my old 120 meg HD, and that was due to the app I was running most of the time creating new directories and individual files for each record it stored.

        Or maybe I just don't notice anymore. :)

      • CPUGuy says:

        It is well known that NTFS is faster than FAT filesystems, among other things like, it journals, so just in case you don't shutdown correctly, it has maybe less than 1% of a chance of getting an error on it, things like that.

      • Kennywins says:

        Why is it then that you can easily run Windows ME with 64MB of RAM, but you can't pull off Windows 2000 without 128? My point isn;t so much in the speed in which things run, it is on the amount of RAM it takes. It goes a little something like this. If I am using a certain amount of my RAM to run the NTFS, then I'd like it if WMP 8.0 was a little less bloat. That way, I could run both, as well as tons of other things, and not notice a drag in speed.
        The fact that the NTFS is more powerful, faster, secure than FAT is not the argument. Anyone can see that. What I am argiung is the desire to customize so as to maximize the use of my RAM.

      • CPUGuy says:

        Because NT is quite a bit more complex than Win9x.

      • CPUGuy says:

        Oh yeah, and it's not the file system, you can run Win2k on FAT32, it still requires the same amount of RAM.

    • Glonk says:

      WinXP allows for NTFS *AND* FAT32. You get the option on install. I'm betatesting Whistler beta 1 right now, and it is really excellent. I mean that in every way.

      I know a whole lot of you will feel awfully silly once you actually get to use it.

      Things like "Movie Maker" only come in WinXP Home Edition. If you don't want that, get WinXP Professional (what most people here would probably prefer).

      I can't begin to talk about how insanely cool the OS is (even in beta 1!), so I'll just let you guys keep complaining about things you don't know about. :)

  27. ady199 says:

    Hi, Has anyone got a WORKING download link Windows XP 2439...??

  28. donpacman says:

    FINALLY "ME" will be put in its place...6 foot under....

    ME was a bad ideal that was only bad...

    • CPUGuy says:

      On the contrary, WinMe was awesome for the people that it worked for.

      And with Me, it either worked for you flawlessly, or nothing worked at all.

      • NXTwoThou says:

        From a customer standpoint, "working well, or not working at all" with a 50/50 shot, is a bad-bad investment. We've not upgraded a single one of our 98SE machines to Me, because, frankly, I don't have the time to fight with an operating system that doesn't operate.

        We don't upgrade to 2000 on the machines, due to the system requirements. But from what I can tell so far, XP seems to have a lot of capabilities and an actual smaller system requirement than regular 2000. Which, to me, is a big deal since I'm constantly gluing old hardware that dies back together to keep our network running(small operation, can't afford to just buy replacements, scavenge from the dead)

        XP, on the other hand, I'm actualy excited about. As soon as its available, its going on my home machine and on the machines here at work that can handle its system requirements. The people on our network are impressed with flashies and feel the flashier, the more "high tech" it is and the less they complain about operation. Sad, but, that's how it works here at least.

  29. drxym says:

    Aside from skins very little else appears new. A UI touches here and there, some stuff from Me but this is essentially W2K in fancy dress. W2K people won't want to upgrade because the upgrade trauma isn't worth the minor benefits and Me/98 people who upgrade may discover that it runs badly on their hardware (

    • mikekol says:

      I disagree about WinXP being a minor upgrade. For Windows 2000 users, it may be all of those things you mentioned: A new shell (kind of), a few more tricks, etc. I will say that the system speed has improved dramatically from Win2k on my computer, however.

      As for Win9x users, there is no way you can call this a minor upgrade. While the GUI may look a little newer than WinMe, cosmetic changes are nothing compared to the real changes that took place under the hood. Moving the consumer line of OS products over to the NT/2k kernel could very well be the best decision that MS has ever made... or it could be the worst. I can see both sides of the issue, but either way, technically speaking, it's no minor upgrade.

      • BlitzProductions says:

        Windows XP features tons of new stuff like a built in personal firewall, built in cd-rw software, built in scanning software, Internet Explorer 6, Windows Media Player 8 and so forth. Microsoft does not tell you all those features. When I installed it, all my drivers were there, no need to install any. Drivers include, my scanner(HP ScanJet 4200c), my printer(HP DeskJet932c), and my video card (3DFX Voodoo 3500 TV). My scanner would not work on Windows 2000 but works on XP, which is good. Also has a compatibility mode that you can run programs emulated in the Windows98 and Windows 2000 cores so for programs that dont run well in WindowsXP.

    • Kayler says:

      I don't think you realize what is actually being released with XP do you? This is the begining implementation of the .Net technology as well as support for ASP+ (ASP.NET) and C#.

      • drxym says:

        .NET is just marketing hype for a bunch of proprietary MS technologies cobbled together to do Internet stuff. There's very little compelling about it unless you're an all-MS company especially since open standards running in hetrogeneous environments could achieve the same results. For the home user I doubt it will make an iota of difference whether .NET is there or not.

  30. majphace says:

    It's beginning to look alot like (xmas) er, I mean Linux

    • Kayler says:

      Yeah it looks like lightstep not Linux. Skinable anything has been around for a while. And if you like what it looks like stick with whatever, but for the functionality I want now It's XP. Linux is dying. I used to be a big fan until Linus stopped and Redhat released 7.0.

    • Neo1805 says:

      He He He

  31. jghost5 says:

    It is just driving me crazy that I don't have my greedy littl' hands on this thing yet. It really looks excellent!

  32. jghost5 says:

    It is just driving me crazy that I don't have my greedy littl' hands on this thing yet. It really looks excellent!

  33. ady199 says:

    PLease has anyone got a link for me to be able to download Windows XP ver: 2439...Any links would be much appriciated...

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