Anti-MS Group Aims to Block Vista

UPDATED A public interest lawyer who is also intending to run as a Republican in the 2006 Illinois gubernatorial race is taking his fight to Microsoft in hopes of preventing the company from releasing what he calls "bad code."

Andy Martin of The Committee to Fight Microsoft on Tuesday announced his intentions to block Microsoft from releasing Windows Vista. Martin intends to ask Microsoft for an unconditional warranty that the operating system is free of bugs that could result in security vulnerabilities.

"Bill Gates sells the public defective products, and then expects us to spend years being his guinea pigs, while he corrects the myriad of defects and vulnerabilities in his defective code. This is mass consumer fraud." Martin argued.

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"It is unacceptable corporate behavior. Over four years after Windows XP was released I still receive regular 'updates' and 'bug fixes,' which reflect a product that was originally scandalously defective."

Windows 95 was a "disaster" and Windows 98 only created new vulnerabilities, Martin said. He argues that no company in America gets away with selling a "defective" product the way Microsoft does.

Also called into question were Microsoft's claims that Windows XP could run on 128MB of RAM, encouraging the sale of underpowered computers by its partners. "The Committee to Fight Microsoft is launching a legal action effort to bar such practice, in advance, for Windows Vista. Bill Gates, you are on notice," Martin said.

In response to the allegations, a Microsoft spokesperson told BetaNews: "Building confidence and trust in computing continues to be one of Microsoft's top priorities and is crucial to the success of the technology industry as a whole. Over the past three years, Microsoft has implemented a range of new security programs, including the Security Development Lifecycle, which has resulted in measurable improvements in the security of Microsoft's software."

"While there is no such thing as a state of absolute security, Microsoft believes Windows Vista will be the most secure version of Windows the company has ever shipped," the spokesperson added.

Martin is a public interest lawyer from Chicago who has worked on several consumer rights cases, including antitrust lawsuits dealing with network television affliation agreements in 1969 and his own antitrust effort against Microsoft in 1998.

He announced an exploratory committee to run for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in Illinois in January of this year.

242 Responses to Anti-MS Group Aims to Block Vista

  1. gawd21 says:

    I think he may need to grow up. Every company that sells products sells bugs and problems. I have never seen a car that didn't have security issues or problems. Cars are just a common mass market item.

    • ThaCHEESE says:

      heh my 99 jetta gets recall notices all the time for things like the windows falling into the doors, tail light switches failing and tons of other stuff like oxygen sensors etc... does that mean i can sue them against releasing a 2006 model??? absurd.

      • gawd21 says:

        My point!

      • terminalx says:

        this guy is probably the typical moron that downloads everything on his pc and opens every email "it says it wants my credit card # and ssn to validate my acct for aol" a unconditional warranty...when did people become so stupid...I declare this year as the year of the stupids...this makes tom arnold a genius (the movie the stupids great movie in a stupid way) and he probably never updates his products and expects everything to work forever and never have a problem...what a joke him and hillary should get together

      • gawd21 says:

        I love to see people that stick up for what is right. IMO

      • Mastertsung says:

        I think someone needs to read his EULA agreement. For a lawyer, this guy is a real dumbass. I guess he also doesn't know what "Beta" means. It is Still Beta - Moron

      • gawd21 says:

        I wasn't talking about that retard that is anti MS I was talking about us posting how retarded he was.

    • slb says:

      Since when did any other company's products reboot two-thirds of the world's computers, all thanks to MS.Blaster?

      Come on, people. "Trusted Computing Initiative" was supposed to fix all this. Why are people so afraid to criticize Microsoft and point out how awful they are?

      • gawd21 says:

        I am guessing that you don't use computers much. Or you live in a small little corner all alone with no way to get software or other products.

      • terminalx says:

        yeah you obviousily did not get the memo...microsoft released a patch for ms blast a month BEFORE this was even an issue...ms blast showed people "wow I have to update my os?" I never had any problem with ms blast I d/led the latest security updates plus this did not affect 2/3 of pcs running microsoft windows it was a large number but in comparison to how many people use windows it still was small in actuality...so had people been maintaining their pcs ms blast would never have been an issue

      • Maxwolf says:

        Personally I have never even heard of this "Trusted Computing Initiative" thing, so that goes to show you how much it fixed stuff.

        Nobody here, especially behind a keyboard and monitor is afriad to criticize anything! If they are so awful then how about getting the rest of us started with a couple of examples?

  2. fibreiv says:

    As a republican and network administrator for a federal government agency I find this guy crazy. I don't think I have every buy or downloaded for free a program that didn't need some kind of patch at some point in it's life. Does he really think someone like an operation system can be written with no bugs whatsoever? I hope he gets beat out in the primaries.

    • Kramy says:

      I think he was indicating that it is illegal when you're charging so bloody much that it better be a finished and secure product.

      • la_bruin says:

        What? Windows 'expensive'? How old are you? I spend more on a business lunch than the $100 it costs for a Windows upgrade.

        I'm a former electronics engineer and currently a software developer. As a software developer, the simple fact that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can change your product makes it infinitely harder to create securely in comparison to hardware. A lot of HW engineering is simply soldering time-tested, pre-developed components together without the fear of some script kiddie 'soldering' his hack onto your product. (Unless you're talking about console mods of course.)

        This guy is basically advertising his ignorance about Information Age reality. He might get the idiot vote but he won't get the more relevant 'intellectual' ticket.

        (And yes, I'm a registered Republican.)

      • gawd21 says:

        $100 isn't much money at all when you think about how much money you will save and or make in less than a year using it. I mean hell most women will spend that in less than 5 minutes on a shopping spree where they buy stuff that they may never use. Am I right guys? Not all women are this way and even some men will do it too.

      • Kramy says:

        Oh my god, $100 for lunch!? Where do you live, America?

        I live up in Canada, and I probably wouldn't spend more than $4.50 for lunch unless it tasted really good.

        Buffet Chinese, $8.50!

      • gawd21 says:

        You also must go to fast-food where as the rest of the world on a business lunch will take several people to a real establishment that servers real food not a byproduct.

      • Kramy says:

        Don't worry, it's not your fault you're overcharged - you just have money, so your businesses want to make money.

        Chinese Restaurant: $8.50 all you can eat, $12.50 business lunch/dinner.
        Steak Dinner(don't forget the wine and full dish): $6.50 + $9.00 + $2.00 = $17.50
        Fast Food: $2.00 - $2.50
        Coffee: $1.00

        Meh, things are cheap here. Those are in CND prices, btw.

        At the chinese restaurant and steak dinner you can get waited upon.

        Edit: Although I admit I find it weird having people bring me stuff, which is why I prefer Chinese buffet.

      • Metshrine says:

        You have obviously never done a business lunch for 10-12 colleagues have you. A business lunch is not a lunch for YOU ALONE, its for you and several other people. Even at 8.50 for your chinese buffet (which isnt a very impressive business lunch), thats $85 without tax. So please, learn what your talking about before you spew forth with BS

      • Maxwolf says:

        Am I the only one that thinks it was a little crazy that Metshrine had to explain a freakin' business lunch? It's makes me seriously doubt the age of several members attached to this thread.

      • wincement says:

        lol

      • Kramy says:

        :P

        You guys really embrace the world, y'know?

      • wincement says:

        meh

        I try :-p

      • dmcdev says:

        lol, I agree with Maxwolf. I am CDN and I know for a fact that a business lunch can run well over $200+. There's a place in Toronto where a burger is $35Cdn. Hey,with the conversion, that's only $29US. What a deal!

      • Kramy says:

        I'm sorry, but all I have to go on is people I know that have been to the states(since I never have), and 6/6 of them said meals were rediculously expensive, $40+ per person for a decent restaurant.

        Also, he said "I spend more on a business lunch", keyword 'I' so unless he's covering his entire company's food bill...bleh.

        Edit: Oh, and I know about 2 dozen Americans that also say it's expensive where they live. Wonder why many Canadians don't like going to America? It wouldn't be your charming attitudes would it?

      • wincement says:

        Ok fair enough.

        But keep in mind that your buddies probably visited tourist areas I'm guessing. If you visit NYC, expect food to be expensive. That's just the way it is when you're in a place that has a LOT of visitors.

        And I don't think "business lunch" was meant to be a US-only term. Surely Canadians must have business lunches where one person will kindly cover the cost?

        Or maybe Canadians aren't that generous (joking) :-p

        I don't know where your "American" (Canada is is in North America too as far as I know ;-p) friends live, but most places, you can stop at pretty much any fast food restaurant and get a full meal for under $5.

        Heck, Domino's has the 5, 5, 5 deal where you get 3 pizzas for $5 each.

        Wow.... this got really off topic.

        **EDIT**
        I misspelled Canada... what an idiot.

      • wincement says:

        he said BUSINESS lunch

        There's a difference between that and stopping at Mickey D's for a quick burger.

      • Linuxuser147560 says:

        "[B][I](And yes, I'm a registered Republican.)[/I][/B]"

        Well there is your problem!

  3. ServerMechanic says:

    I'm kinda on the fence here.

    I think the dude has a point. On the other hand I've mostly had great results with Windows XP Pro.

    I however still get annoyed by how Windows XP gets in your way instead of letting you do stuff yourself. Menu's are more burried than Windows 2000 and you have stuff popping up all over the place asking you if you want to do this or that....

    Coders have gotten really lazy in the last 5 years or so. It's pretty annoying too.

    What if my servers or network only worked part of the time because every month I had to rewire something or fix stuff? That would be unacceptable.

    • wincement says:

      "Coders have gotten really lazy in the last 5 years or so. It's pretty annoying too."

      I don't think I would agree with that. I don't think it's that programmers are getting lazy. I think what's mostly to blame is the sheer complexity of the programs being written.

  4. computershack says:

    "He argues that no company in America gets away with selling a "defective" product the way Microsoft does."

    Remind me again how many people were killed when Ford used Firestone tyres on the Ford Excursion? Yet both Ford and Firestone are still in business.

    Someone really ought to inform him that the American automotive industry has been getting away with selling scandalously shoddy and defective products for over 100 years.

  5. shy_one says:

    Also called into question were Microsoft's claims that Windows XP could run on 128MB of RAM, encouraging the sale of underpowered computers by its partners.

    My old system ran just fine with 128MB ram.

    • Kramy says:

      Did you try to run anything on it?

      • shy_one says:

        As a matter of fact i did instant messengers downloads and music playing in the back ground plus web surfing.

      • la_bruin says:

        Funny you should ask: Running Windows XP in as little memory as possible is a hobby of mine or sorts. (Sad as that might sound)

        I currently run Windows XP with a footprint of about 75MB on laptops with 160MB and it runs beautifully. The first and obvious key is to shutdown all services (SERVICES.MSC) that are unnecessary, like LANMANSERVER which my laptop doesn't need; I end up disabling 20-30 services. I could disable more but I leave it at that. Then I disable devices like LPT & COM ports that I don't need to eliminate device drivers in memory.

        I can assure you that Windows XP can run fine on a 128MB machine - and this includes running Office, IE, and MSN Messenger. Start with http://nexle.dk/daniel/win2000-32mb/ if you want a primer.

      • Kramy says:

        Cool, thanks for the link.

    • jmbadger says:

      Right. The OS, with absolutely no other programs to get in the way, will run fine on 128 MB. It's when you begin adding applications, and expecting to run more than one at a time, that 128 MB becomes insufficient.

      • RobertM says:

        My family ran XP on 128 MB for one or two years, and it really wasn't that bad--and they even used AOL (probably 7.0 and 8.0 at the time) on top of that. Yes, 256 MB makes it a lot Snappier(TM), but I don't think it's that awful, especially if you aren't comparing it to a 3 GHz system whose RAM is best measured in GB.

        OTOH, I don't think OS X on 256 MB (on the original iMac G5) is that bad, either, but I did upgrade to 768 and it's a bit faster.

  6. Jhjm32087 says:

    This guy is a bit out there. Every software in the market has sec. problems and bugs, this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. There will always be sec. update. The reason for this is that we are human and we all make mistakes. In addition, to ask not to release a product until every bug and sec. problem is corrected, that would be impossible. This person should not even be running for any position if he doesn't know what he is talk about. The perfect software or OS does not exist. No one should vote for him at all.

  7. PhoenixPath says:

    Should they just not release patches and claim the OS is bug-free, that bad people are just taking advantage of built-in, undocumented, remote-control feaures?

    This guy is humorous, but needs a good wacking with the almighty CLUEx4.

  8. roj says:

    Another grandstanding Republican looking to make a name for himself. He's right up there with other notable kooks like Jesse Helms and Orrin Hatch.

    'nuff said.

    • PhoenixPath says:

      Yeah, cuz democrats like Hillary Clinton never grandstand on issues...

      That Hot-Coffee sex thing, I mean...How dare they put that in there. God forbid it might detract from the murder, drugs, theft, and rape the rest of the game revolves around.

      • wincement says:

        An extremely good point, but that doesn't negate the idiocy of Andy Martin. He's a moron.

      • PhoenixPath says:

        Yeah, I thought that was so obvious as to be taken for granted.

      • wincement says:

        lol true

      • roj says:

        Hey, your entire political system is full of whack jobs. :)

        It's just that Republicans are far more holier-than-thou and more hypocritical than most.

        The mental midget in question is an excellent case in point.

      • PhoenixPath says:

        My entire political system? Sorry, never had one. The US lost "their" (possessive) political system around the time of Vietnam. It's no longer ours. Hasn't been for many years.

        For the people, my ass.

        Anywho...WTHOT.

      • Maxwolf says:

        The thing that bothers me is the kids have to do some research to get that Hot-Coffee mod to even work...it all falls back on bad parenting god forbid I offend any parents on this board. Pay attention to your kids, that is not the goverments damn job.

  9. M1M2Z1 says:

    Lowlevel repubs aren't supposed to think for themselves, just stick to the Party's line and everything will be okay.

  10. Bugeyes says:

    ...that the operating system is free of bugs that could result in security vulnerabilities..

    Hahahahahahaha

    While you're at it, change all automobiles so that they cannot be broken into, prepare all food so that people will not be allergic to it, and make alcohol so that I can drink as much as I want and not get sick.

    ...Windows 95 was a "disaster" and Windows 98 only created new vulnerabilities, Martin said. He argues that no company in America gets away with selling a "defective" product the way Microsoft does...

    And yet it appears you've bought every windows OS since 3.11 - maybe you can go back and use that OS and compare your productivity (with or without the 'security' vulnerabilites that your kids probably placed on your PC by pirating music) to WinXP.

    WindowsXP will definately run on 128MB of memory, I've ran it on 64MB. Office will kill you, but if you really need/use MS Office, you should add those requirements on top of what XP wants.

    Buggy

  11. msanford says:

    Ha ha ha... Here's another interesting piece on this whack-job!

    http://www2.theregister.co.uk/1999/12/22/crazed_microsoft_antagonist_runs/

    • heat_fan1 says:

      Oh, so this isn't the first time he's tried this. Guess there's no real threat here. (Well, there wasn't before I read that article, anyway.)

    • mhfreak says:

      Well you can see how much success he's had getting his message out for the last six years! You think he would've gotten the point after the millionth person told him he was insane, but some people just never learn. At least Microsoft does. Trustworthy Computing, fix the bugs first, add the features later....

  12. grassy says:

    Besides the fact that he is completely out there... Why is he specificaly going after MS as opposed to EVERY software company out there. When was the last time you bought any peice of software that had no bugs?

    And if he is going to complain about the patches he keeps getting notices for at least they are free. I would be more likely to agree with him if software was released with bugs and then they charged you to fix them.

    Hahaha, you think longhorn was delayed before. Imagine if they had to make sure there wasn't any bugs in the 10 million + lines of code in it. Ouch !

    All in all maybe he should crusade against defective products that kill people instead of software.

    Now where did I park that Pinto? :)

  13. yleclerc says:

    Software free of bugs? I never seen any software ever that NEVER had bugs. Software have become blotware. Too many features are included that most people will never use! If you want a bug-free software program, you never find one.

  14. heat_fan1 says:

    Hey, while we're at it, let's tell all the hackers and virus makers to stop thinking of new ways to get in to Windows. Then we won't need security updates. Now, how the hell is Microsoft supposed to predict what methods losers will come up with 4 years down the road to hack into their OS? They can't! They just fix the problem after it's been presented.

    Oh, and while we're at it, Norton (and every other antivirus program) should be banned because they don't cover every single new virus out of the box! I hate having to update my virus definitions. If Symantec is banned, then we'll all be zombie computers! :D

    Talk about a crazy lawyer just trying to make a name for himself. Either he really knows nothing about the technology that he so highly preaches to be a protector of, or he's just trying to get votes from those people who don't know about the technology and are just riding his bandwagon. Either way he's a crock.

    • skimore says:

      POWER to the LAWYERS!!! WAKE UP!!! Stop smoking crack!!!!

      This guy needs to be removed from the Republican party!

    • Kramy says:

      If you're using Norton, your computer is thinking as fast as a zombie.

  15. jofin says:

    Call me cynical but is this just another Republican trying to get free publicity? The only thing I agree with from his statement is that XP was sub the required standard when it was first released and this must be rectified when Vista rolls out.
    However, the rest is just Republican bull!
    Bill Gates will be quaking in his boots that this numpty has threatened him. Perhaps the next release of Windows should not be called Vista and instead "vote Republican". I'd bet he wouldn't complain then! Each box should have a picture of the extraordinarily good looking George W Bush on the front - now that would scare customers off.

  16. wincement says:

    wtf?

    This guy is a complete moron. You can tell from his quotes he has absolutely no clue what he's talking about technology-wise.

    It's just an effing publicity stunt, and I hope he gets burned for it.

    retard.

  17. zridling says:

    If Microsoft moved to China, then the republicans would stop criticizing it. Lord knows they've declared war on American companies ever making a profit. Hey mr. republican, why not sue the Tribune company for putting their defective product on the field (the Cubs)!

  18. xion`os2k says:

    If this guy's trying to stop m$ from shipping Windows, it's only fair for him to target just about every other software maker out there. Just about every program I can think of still has software updates to fix their "bugs"

    Thing is, he's probably just too stupid to figure out his computer, so he blames m$. I'm not a huge windows fan myself, but this guy's ridiculous.

  19. jbenisek says:

    Funny, Look at the recalls for cars made. If even one car gets broken into I want a new car. I want a unconditional warranty on my house, car, taxes, food, highways, laws....
    Get the point, they sell us bad laws and we have to try for years to fixs and pay billions of our $$$ to fix. Come vote day I want a unconditional warranty on him.
    I have a great idea, why don't they stop using it if it's so bad?

  20. bourgeoisdude says:

    "He announced an exploratory committee to run for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in Illinois in January of this year."

    There you go BetaNews--bash Microsoft and Republicans at the same time. Good one. I HATE IT that this guy is Republican. Though I am not Republican or Democrat, I lean more conservatively than liberal, and this guy will make any group look bad. This is stupid and it's a shame that this dumby is causing harm to himself, Microsoft, and republicans all at once. There you go moron, everyone's an idiot but you. That what you wanted me to say?

  21. billweh says:

    This almost makes me want to move back to IL so that I could vote against this door knob.

    If he really thinks that this is going to work, and get him elected, then is he really messed up.

  22. Sport1031 says:

    The reason you keep getting updates is because new viruses are continually being made. What an idiot. If people want it over other OSes then let them have it, but dont try to block vista. What will that do? It is impossible to make an enitrely perfect and secure. And Linux users: Linux is not perfect either so dont try to use that. (Mac users too.)

    • a-rebours says:

      "It is impossible to make an enitrely perfect and secure."

      False. See my two previous posts.

  23. jordenpro says:

    "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

    I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

    On a serious note:

    Preventing Windows Vista from release!?

    "over four years after Windows XP was released I still receive regular 'updates' and 'bug fixes,'"

    Okay, that comment should have you put to sleep.

    Do you complain about your virus signatures updating daily? You'd rather have no support from MS and be a sitting duck for any script kiddie to take over.

    The fact is no code is 100% secure. Windows hold majority of the market so it's targeted more. Same with the battle w/ IE & Mozilla, IE exploits are showing up more than Mozilla because IE holds the market. Mozilla has them too, but who cares about those 75 million.

    • Kramy says:

      Your argument is flawed. IE had holes(lots of them) even when it didn't hold the market.

      • Maxwolf says:

        The argument is NOT flawed. That is along the right lines. More people use Windows, more people are familiar with it, more people have the ability to exploit it one way or another.

        IE does have holes, true, but that is not the point. You should be asking yourself what piece of software doesn't have holes in it? I am glad that people exploit them and I am even more glad that Microsoft repairs them.

        For i = 0 to UBound(Exploits())
        DoEvents
        Call Repair(Exploits(i))
        Next i

      • Metshrine says:

        Very true, and a nice use of VB Code by the way ;-) I love the doevents call!

      • Maxwolf says:

        Yields execution so that the operating system (or Microsoft in this analogy) can process other events. ;)

    • JoeG says:

      "Windows hold majority of the market so it's targeted more. Same with the battle w/ IE & Mozilla, IE exploits are showing up more than Mozilla because IE holds the market."

      Now, *that* is a farce. Along that logic, the Apache web server should be attacked more than twice as often as IIS. Windows (and I.E.) are attacked more often because they are easier targets, not because they are the majority.

    • jbenisek says:

      Atleast you do receive them, MS could make you pay for them, or could just not do anything.

  24. slb says:

    "Funny you should ask: Running Windows XP in as little memory as possible is a hobby of mine or sorts. (Sad as that might sound)"

    That is extremely sad. Windows is so crappy that people have made it their hobbies to de-bloat it. Look at all the excuses made for this horrible software with its bad interface and design decisions.

    Have fun running anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, and registry cleaner software jam-packed in your system tray for another two years. When Vista comes out, you'll need 512MB and 3Ghz just to display windows on the screen. That's sad, and it's done on purpose to make people buy a new computer and drive OEM sales. You guys want to fall for it for some reason. I think it's because you're just used to Windows and haven't tried anything better. God, it's ridiculous to think that every single "new" feature in Vista is something that's already in OS X, many of them since 2002 (hardware-accelerated windowing, hello OS X Jaguar 10.2).

    • Kramy says:

      Actually, I think it's kind of noble. Lots of us aren't that wealthy that when we discover windows has bugs in it, we go out and buy another computer with Mac OS X. For those that are stuck with windows(which is a very large chunk) it's a nice thing to do to help people.

      If I ever get longhorn, it'll be to test and see how fast I can make it run. If it goes faster than win2k, I'll upgrade, but I doubt it will do that.

      • wincement says:

        I will still never buy the "It costs to much" or "now I'm broke after buying Windows" arguments.

        It's not that expensive. Heck, just ride your bike for two weeks instead of driving. The money you save on gas would probably be enough to pay for Windows (slight exaggeration).

      • gawd21 says:

        "Heck, just ride your bike for two weeks instead of driving. The money you save on gas would probably be enough to pay for Windows (slight exaggeration)."

        Not at $2.50 a gal. you're not exaggerating.

      • TomL_12953 says:

        I've never paid $2.50 for a gal. $50 was as low as she'd go ;-} As far as buggy software, I don't consider hackable software to be buggy. As long as the software does what the manual (remember those?) says, it's bug-free. What outsiders (hackers) do to the software is not the fault of Microsoft or any other OS producer.

      • Maxwolf says:

        Good point.

      • Kramy says:

        Aye, but in the case of Microsoft, quite often it fails both.

      • gawd21 says:

        You have to go to those third world places.

    • Compman2000 says:

      Bit off topic, but...

      "When Vista comes out, you'll need 512MB and 3Ghz just to display windows on the screen."

      Have you tried using Vista Beta 1? Unless there is a radical requirement difference between now and release, B1 runs beautifully (minus some current compatibility problems) on a 1.7GHz Pentium M laptop with 512MB RAM. Its performance is equivalent to if not better than XP under heavy games such as UT2k4 and WoW, even with non-optimized drivers.

      "You guys want to fall for it for some reason. I think it's because you're just used to Windows and haven't tried anything better."

      I've "tried" MacOS X 10.3 and 10.4 and agree that it is a beautiful operating system and a breath of fresh air. However, I enjoy PC games and many of which will not run on a Mac. If I had an excess of cash I would have both a PC and Mac but with a, say, $2,000 computer budget I would still get a PC because I could get more power for the money. XP works well for everything I do. If I spent that on a Mac I'd feel like I'm paying mainly for the Apple "style," casing, Expose, Dashboard, and Spotlight.

      Since I was curious, I did a price comparison between Apple and Dell. I compared equal-as-possible spec setups between a 17-inch PowerBook and a 17-inch Inspiron 9300. The Dell cost $1,658 while the Apple cost $2,699 (subtotals). Hmmm...I'm sorry, but a $1,000 difference is too much for me right now.

    • Maxwolf says:

      "I think it's because you're just used to Windows and haven't tried anything better."

      Nobody cares what the hell you think! Get some facts to replace your trolling about horrible software and crap about bad interface and design decisions. Replace it with hardcore facts that nobody could deny and you won't look like such a troll.

  25. Adrian79 says:

    windows xp pro works fine for me, no probz...no attacks, no viruses, u people are wierd lol

  26. genblood says:

    I hate it when I read STUPID CRAP like this.
    Microsoft WindowsXP is a step up from its
    other OSs. When Windows Vista gets released it
    will be better then WinXP.

    If you don't like it because you think it bloat
    ware ... or it just sucks... DON'T USE IT ...
    Us Linux or buy a Mac ...

    Bottom line, if you don't like MS products
    DON'T USE them !!!!

  27. cap737 says:

    I like everyone's comments about this article and a lot of people have good point of views about the way software developers efforts to provide a product that may or may not suffer from security flaws.

    Though I have to admit, windows 98 was a mess and so was 95 (obiously). When ME came out i thought it was cool at first but my computer was crashing a lot and suffering from BSOD so I reverted back to 98SE because it was more stable. The consumer versions of Windows will never be perfect!

    NT4 had seven service packs and some people still prefer using NT4 over 2k. I personally think that 2K is a great OS and they only came out with four service packs.

    XP Home and Pro had the benefits of both worlds for the corporate and consumer levels. I've had my issues with XP pro and had to do a few reinstalls (or revert to images) due to bloating, performance, and software issues. I don't like how they provide so many services that people don't like to use such as windows messenger. It keeps coming up even when you accidentally open it and you have to go back and disable it. But they fixed that with service pack 1 (not 1a, but also included) to remove built-in windows components such as Messenger.

    But it's not just Windows that has security updates and version updates. OS X is now up to 10.4.2 and I didn't really see a difference between 10.4 or 10.4.1 but they patched up holes that could've been exploited. OS X programs suffer from crashes to (programs not the OS) and when they crash only the program goes down not the whole system.

    I'm not saying that Mac is better than windows and vise versa, but for the daily operations I perform I've had more issues with windows XP and that is why I use a Mac. I still use my XP machine for some of the programs I like but I use OS X for the stuff I do because it works better. Neither is perfect but I prefer to use it for Office, photo editing and video editing, and internet use. Works for me :-)!

  28. limbeaux says:

    The fact that the author of the article was just adding fire to the article about the guy being a republican and running for gov. I see he was successful in sucking people in. I also believe that this is an obsurd law suit. I do agree with his point that the code should be more secure and reliable. MS is making its way towards a better environment. Look at the changes that have come along. Active Directory: LDAP bastardized - also the way Unix has done things for years. Paul Allen admitted that Linux is a more secure environment and more sturdy. (not exact quote -- done from memory -- read it in a betanews article.) Linux is more secure because of the way things run and install. summary: software is installed with the permissons of the current user in a *NIX system (FYI - BSD is the underlying OS in macs); not with system level priviledges as it does in windows. It is that sort of thing that is the real issue. It is extremely difficult (meaning not impossible)to alter system files or write to protected areas in a *nix box. On a daily basis I use XP Pro/Server 2003/debian sarge/debian SID (on the debians I run gnome/kde/xfce) I see where there are strengths and weaknesses in both worlds. I Hope that people see that longhorn (VISTA) still needs a lot of work behind the scenes. Meaning the way it handles system changes. Many People use the argument that there are more viruses for windows because there are more windows users. That is true. The other truth is that the way windows handles installs and security, also makes it much easier. FYI on an avg home user system VB scripts (some viruses and most spyware are vb) run with system level permissions and therefore are much easier to install. Cutting it off here. My point in not 100% solid and i know that. I also know that I am correct in agreeing with the lawyer that the underlying systems in MS OS needs a complete overhaul. I am not posting this to argue or debate. I would like it if people would take some of my thoughts, do a little research (ie if you have never used an *nix than learn how it works before responding) to see POSSIBLE efforts that could be made to make windows OS more secure. Ideas and Comments are welcome -- not juvenile name calling and off point responses are not. BTW - MS has a beta of a new coding system that will do away with DLL files. For those "if you don't like it, don't use it people -- at a work place or school, the choice is not always yours to make

    • Maxwolf says:

      limbeaux,st0mp: Could you please try to create paragraphs? More people will read your post. Promise.

  29. st0mp says:

    this guy might do more damage then good. for what he is asking for. a software that is designed to be able to use everything from a genaric to a 3d set of glasses with perfict performance will not happen ever. only way thats going to happen is if everybody uses the same hardware and everything gets encoded for that device only. and no im not a MS fan i actualy hate MS but im reasonable and that is a unreasonable request the thing i do agree with is when they put min requirments on a product when they know it will run it will just run with problems that is BS if it cant run stable then it cant run windows 95 was full of bugs badly but for the improvments that 95 did vr win311 was a major step in the right direction on getting everybodys hardware going as far as reciveing updates 4 years after the relise of windows xp. to me its like getting a new car owning the car for 4 years then get some info about the wireing gets brital easy and causes a fire. would u like to have that fixed or just put off to the side becuse they aready sold you the car and it was 4 years ago ? i think still working on a product to give me more features on a product thats 4 years old is a good thing. and another thing everybody is learning new things and with new ideas everyday with this in mind maybe it took somebody 4 years to figure out how to get in your pc and steel all your account info then he posts it on the net. you wouldnt want that prevented? oh the software is 4 years old dont bother fixing it. thats what this dude is saying to me becuse nothing is going to be prefict in software everybody knows as soon as they figure a way to prevent something there is somebody out there who wants to crack it we are always going to have updates hopefully and there will always be a risk of somebody cracking it. this crap about windows wanting to look at all my other software that has nothing to do with the ms corp is total bs im waiting for ms to ask me if they can have a sample of my wifes clit hairs next. fight them on that .

  30. GoodThings2Life says:

    This guy isn't a Republican... he's a lawyer, and he's clearly out to profit from this frivolous, unfounded lawsuit.

    Republicans are generally pro-business, and anti-regulation. (Let's not discuss unrelated beliefs and issues, lol)

    For the moment...

    Let's ignore the fact that Microsoft built its campus on land in Redmond in an effort to preserve the national forest surrounding the facilities, and spends more money per year to develop the natural resources there.

    Let's ignore the fact that the company's profits provide a HUGE financial stimulus to the economy in the way of jobs, taxes, and quite frankly--- played a significant impact in the buildup of technology over the past 20 years. In fact...

    Let's ignore the fact that Microsoft's software started a technological revolution that has brought about the commercial development of thousands of businesses, increased global technological competition. Yeah, that's right... they've increased competition-- Apple is improving and even more popular than ever, Linux is becoming increasingly valued by "non-geeks" especially in the enterprise environment, and even long-thought-dead Netscape is still around. IBM was smart and stopped wasting time competing directly with Microsoft and changed focus on business services-- something more companies should consider, I feel.

    Ignoring all these things, let's consider the fact that countless have challenged Microsoft legally and failed... what makes this loser-lawyer think he can just waltz in and make claims about an OS that's still in development and automatically assume it's going to be "bad code" before it's officially released? What makes this loser think he's going to be successful where countless have failed?

    The point has been made time and time again, and no regulation has been needed along the way... IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT! IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!

    Stop complaining that you don't like the other choices either... there are plenty out there, and if you don't like any of them, then find a group of developers and produce something better.

    I've said this for years, and I believe it---

    Some people WISH IT COULD happen,
    Some people THINK IT WILL happen,
    Some people MAKE IT happen...

    If you aren't ready to make it happen, get the hell out of the road so the rest of us can!

    • wincement says:

      You should give the opening remarks for the defense lol.

      Very, very well put.

    • Wibble says:

      "Unrelated beliefs and issues?" What, like everything that you say we can ignore? Not a one of those points means a thing when looking at the argument.

      How many cases have resulted in rulings against MS? Let's look there. There are plenty. Let's keep an even keel on this, even if Martin can't.

      Martin's a fruitcake, and it does not seem a bad idea to let him get passed to some prisoner for Christmas. After all, Christmas fruitcakes just get passed around anyway, and where better than a prison to be passed around for being this stupid?

      • wincement says:

        Everyone of his/her points were dead on and completely on topic.

        Andy Martin claims that MS has committed mass consumer fraud. Everything GoodThings2Life said clearly disproves Andy's point.

    • Maxwolf says:

      Good post!

  31. school1012 says:

    Well If this guy thinks Vista should not be released, then OSX should not be released, Norton, linux, unix, firefox, AOL, or any other piece of software for that matter.

    • a-rebours says:

      As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are operating systems that have been proven correct, with proven-correct compilers, that run on CPUs that have been (largely) proven-correct.

      "Proven-correct" means that the software or hardware specification has been captured in a language called the Z-notation - a variant of mathematical set theory - and that the code has been mathematically proven to to meet the Z-notation spec. If the software or hardware has a bug, then it could only be because someone messed up the specification.

      The language is Occam 2, running on the Transputer CPU, which is used in much of the U.K.'s mission-critical defense hardware. The Z notation, OCCAM language, and Transputer were all developed at the Oxford University Computing Lab, working from ideas originated by Prof. Tony Hoare.

      All this stuff is 15+ years old, so there are doubtless newer, provably-correct techniques around. (This isn't my field.) Still, the project proved you could write code that was totally bug-free.

  32. thedreampolice says:

    Ok both Linux and Mac are more secure not becuase they are smaller targets but because they handle users acounts and permissions properly. This actually should be better (user acounts) with the next version of windows. Other than that this guy is just shootin the moon.

  33. John_T says:

    To all the people who wrote how much more secure Linux and Mac are: get a clue. Both are based on flavors of UNIX that have been around WAY longer than any Microsoft code. And, guess what? - there are patches for those OS's that come out all the time too. NOTHING IS COMPLETELY SECURE - period.

    You know why people get Windows-based software compromised more often than the others? Because of ease of use. If everyone could use UNIX, do you think there would be a Microsoft? People use it because it's easy to use. With that comes issues. What this means is that anyone who goes into Office Depot and sees a Windows Server, or Windows XP box on the shelf can buy it, set it up with ALL the defaults, and say: "hey! I have a file server, or I have a web server - look at me!" Sure you do, but you don't know ANYTHING about using it or the security that a real network/OS engineer would know and thus, it's insecure because you clicked next, next, finish. Guess what? I can take any Linux distro and do the same thing by loading it up and making it a DNS server, or web server and putting it live out on the net. Guess what's going to happen to it? Same thing as the Windows box - hammered!

    What it boils down to is people. If you know what you're doing, you can take ANY OS and make it secure enough to use in most environments. If you're an attorney, you take your foot and put it in your mouth and say something as ridiculous as this guy did. It's obvious he couldn't secure anything, and we'll see where his legal expertise is when he tries to go up against real lawyers.

    • school1012 says:

      totaly agree. Well put.

    • GoodThings2Life says:

      Hmm... you may be on to something...

      If this guy thinks Microsoft should release an OS that is 100% secure against all human error, perhaps we should expect two things out of this:

      A) Microsoft God 1.0 (In other words, ain't gonna happen)

      B) Him to provide 100% secure legal counsel for every case he argues that will grant his clients 100% victories at all times. I'm interested now in learning what his court record is. *grin*

      • WordWiggle says:

        While I do think he is "off the wall" on this (if not even further), there is a bit of truth here.

        Why is it that software companies are not held responsible for flaws due to negligence. There are behaviors in Windows that were *designed* to be the way they are and they were exactly the security problem. For example, email that can contain a script that will run automatically when you get the email.

        Now, bugs (flaws) that were unintended are one thing, but when something is designed to do exactly what it does and it is that action that is the problem, then responsibility should be on the designer.

      • wincement says:

        "Why is it that software companies are not held responsible for flaws due to negligence."

        Because it's very hard to prove the reason for a flaw. I mean seriously, no one can prove that a programmer was "negligent" of a flaw that arose FOUR YEARS after the OS was released.

        "For example, email that can contain a script that will run automatically when you get the email."

        That's been long since fixed. When was the last time you used Outlook or Outlook Express? Running scripts in e-mail was a *feature* to allow for more rich content. It was only after some twisted programmer used it for malicious scripting that it became a "security issue"

    • Yukas says:

      >>Both are based on flavors of UNIX that have been around WAY longer than any Microsoft code.

      I hear this opinion very frequently. And in IT'S not comlpetely, but WRONG.

      Question:
      Who developed Windows NT?
      Answer:
      The group of programmers who developed VMS. Digital (remember this company?) freesed development of VMS and switched wholly to Digital Unix. Microsoft bought this group. Legend: WNT means VMS shifted one bit right.

      So the roots of WNT not so short. Linux and MacOs X shorter.

      And microsoft "ease of use" IMHO overestimated: for XP it's correct, but adminestering NT-server not easier than unix-server.

  34. auutumn says:

    While I admire Martin's decision to hold Microsoft accountable for its upcoming OS, he is, without a doubt, a lunatic for thinking that he’ll be able to change the behemoths mindset or practices. Any engineer could tell you that an OS is the most complicated piece of software technology around. It is constantly being assaulted by unscrupulous hackers who expose the OS to the underpinnings from which it is crafted. No engineer, developer, or architect can produce a perfect product and it feels like Martin is trying to become world renowned for taking on Microsoft then for his perception and understanding of technology.

  35. excelon2005 says:

    While I'm one of the people who love Linux to itty-bitty pieces because I am among the fortunate few who get to sit on their hands while the world suffers from VISTA (Virus Infection Spyware Trojan Adware), I could say that guy's gone nuts.

    No OS is perfect, and I can testify that by telling you that a run of "yum check-update" on a weekly-updated machine shows 16 updates right now. 16 updates, and the week is not even halfway through! Sure, they are bugfixes, enhancements, security fixes all in one, but it's enough to prove that we're in the same boat going up **** Creek without a paddle.

    What WE need to hold accountable is the users. It's their fault that they want their fixin' of porn. It's their fault that they don't see the red flags. Programmers are neither God nor Atlas.

  36. DigitalSin says:

    I am stunned at the degree of stupidity shown by Andy Martin.

    "Martin intends to ask Microsoft for an unconditional warranty that the operating system is free of bugs that could result in security vulnerabilities."

    Mr Martin, you obviously haven't the slightest clue about how software is designed and developed, let alone the complexities involved with a piece of software such as an operating system.

    Can we just as rightfully ask every drug manufacturer for a warranty promising that every drug released from now on will be free of any properties that could potentially harm someone? We can't, and that's why we buy drugs that come with warnings and side effects. It is up to the consumer to make the decision to use the drug given the risks involved that hopefully the benefit will outweigh.

    I am just disgusted at this joke of a lawyer and politician.

    • DigitalSin says:

      Oh and by the way. Check out his e-mail address.

      "[email protected]".

      AOL? I think that explains everything.

    • a-rebours says:

      DigitalSin, it is quite possible to write software that contains *absolutely no errors*: you have to spend time specifying precisely what you want the software to do (in a mathematical-style language, such as the Zed notation), and *prove* that your program meets the spec, but this can be done. IBM did it with 600,000 lines of CICS code nearly 15 years ago!

      If MS had not wasted its time re-inventing the VMS operating system (WiNT, XP etc), and re-writing Java (.NET), then they could've spent their time making a provably correct OS, and leapfrogged GNU/Linux while being able to market their new OS as fundamentally different from *NIX rivals.

      Please do some research before shooting your mouth off again.

    • a-rebours says:

      Your analogy with drug manufacture is totally flawed. An OS runs on hardware that is understood to any degree of abstraction you like. In contrast, drugs "run" on patients that are all inherently unique, so their impact on the "hardware" (the patient) is necessarily unpredictable.

      There is no reason why software should contain any errors, but drugs will have unexpected side-effects as long as there are aspects of human biochemistry that we don't fully understand.

  37. imafurby says:

    Well that does it. I'm almost at the point of thinking of switching to a Mac.

    • mhfreak says:

      Didn't you hear? Apple just released four patches. I don't think you want to go there, man...Their code isn't 100% bug free. :)

  38. Pluto99 says:

    I don't really care, since I am still using Windows 95 and really what computer needs more than 640K to type a letter?

    • eunichman says:

      *shivers*
      that whole "640k" statement brings back memories, a young bill gates stating that NO computer will ever need more than 640k.

      later that same bill gates said "OS/2 is the operating system of the future"

      that was two major wrong statements made by billy :) anyone care to venture what the third was?

  39. tannman1 says:

    I wonder what Operating System this blowhard's admin assist used to fire up his word processor, betcha Win 2000.XP or 9X and used Office

  40. hellgoddess420 says:

    this is gay! it's like telling ford to build a car that cant be wreaked... or hotwired, this is the dumbest thing i heard.

  41. eels_rule says:

    If all the village idiots in all the villages around the world left their villages and went and formed one massive village of their own, this guy would be their village idiot.

    Vote for him? I wouldn't throw a rock at him!

    • GeorgeSantayana says:

      "If all the village idiots in all the villages around the world left their villages and went and formed one massive village of their own ..."

      It would be called the "US Congress"?

      • Maxwolf says:

        This would make a cool bumper-sticker. Could have the Congress building in the background and grey scaled and have white letters using the village idiot quote.

        No?

  42. VinUnleaded says:

    I can picture the whole story now. Heres how it goes

    Low-life politician says to assissitant: "Damn, I wish there was something I could complain about to get famous"

    Assisstant (whos also a loser, MS hater) blows a cloud of smoke from the marajuana he inhaled: "yea, i know just the thing"

    ...

    • fewt says:

      "Assisstant (whos also a loser, MS hater) blows a cloud of smoke from the marajuana he inhaled: "yea, i know just the thing""

      Way to be a bigot

  43. ajhome says:

    This guy is so hot head and can't see the facts, Every OS in world has bugs in it. It hard for developer to know about every issue out there if your going to stop Windows vista because it may need so bugs fixed in it you have to stop MACOS X tiger what had 2 services pack in like 8 weeks and LINUX what in my eyes has more bugs then any other OS I seen most linux have bug fix a day what fair more then any system. I think it not how many bugs it has but how it deal with getting bug fixes on computers running OS. I belive that Microsoft and APPLE have best patching systems out there it easy to use. and Microsoft is make it easyer for IT Admins to Patch Client PC I work in school with over 250 computer. Microsoft let you download for free SUS server that let you setup a computer with updates and we can set up clients PC to update from server via GPO. Linux and MAC do not have this. I think microsoft is doing best job it can. also keep in mind microsoft can't test windows on every PC out there.

  44. Portal3 says:

    It's kind of a "given" that Windows Vista is to be the "most secure" version of Windows Microsoft has ever shipped. Unless they're going backwards? *Disregards spokesperson's statement.*

    It would be nice if Microsoft was intelligent enough to develop a secure operating system. What do they do over the years? Keep people in suspense twiddling their thumbs and promoting the OS. Maybe even finding some flaws prior to the release.

    If they can come up with the concept of something then the they should know the code like a priest knows the Bible. "Idiocy" isn't an excuse for anything in this industry.

  45. eunichman says:

    All in favor of software recalls (simular to auto recalls) say "I"

    heheh

    Imagine a world where the most serious instances of bad code in computers be treated like bad manufacture of cars.... defects that CAN cause serious liabilities and or damage? example... defective seat belt motors in cars with motorized shoulder belts that CAN malfunction and put the motorist at risk.. a LOT of cars were recalled because of such a defect and a lot of money was spent in both fixing the defect and the lawsuits from people who were injured because of the defect...

    Now we have an example on the software side. Remember the CIH virus (or whatever it's name was that attacjked the bios and rendered the mainboard inoperable). This virus was only able to propigate and act because of a flaw in windows (which has since been fixed. but what of all the downtime by individuals and corporations as well as the extra investment in replacement mainboards on systems that were attacked by the virus? who should pay for these costs? the individual or corporation? the maker of the virus? or the maker of the operating system that gave the means to allow the virus to act?. compare those three with consumer, seat belt motor manufacturer, or car maker. The car makers are the ones who took ther liability of the flawed seat belt motor and paid for all the repairs and all the reperations, so using that as an example, microsoft should be made to pay for damages caused by the cih virus. :)

    but that's not reality. the reality of it all is, NO software is guaanetted to do anything. you buy and use at your own risk, the choice is yours. buy a computer or not. run windows or not etc.

    • I agree w/ most of what you said, but here's some food for thought. If you own a home in some remote forest region and some crazy arson starts a forest fire, and your home burns down because of it. Are you going to hold the builder of the house liable because your house burned to the ground?

      • eunichman says:

        No, I would hold either the forest service or the gods and goddesses responsible for allowing the trees to burn LOL :)

    • gawd21 says:

      Keep in mind that car companies don't have millions of people out there making "viruses" to exploit the "bugs" they may have. I know this is not the same stance that I took a little bit ago, but it's another fine point I believe.

      • dmcdev says:

        Car companies seem to have parts that break down just after their warranty expires. mmm... maybe MS should offer a 5 year or X number of hours of runtime limited warranty. They could make millions! But no, they've chosen to stand behind their product until the next model is released (and then some).
        I have run XP Pro almost from day one, without any problems. All it takes is a little maintence... much like a tuneup or oil change.

    • Maxwolf says:

      It's called FlashBIOS.

  46. shinigami0522 says:

    Okay then can i start a Commite to Fight shitty politicans? I DEMAND that all politicans be honest and fair and if we even have the hint of doubt we should take them out of office imediately! Who's with me?

    Have ANY of you tried to write any type of advanced program on your own? I've written many programs and NEVER has anything worked 100% perfectly when i was "done." Even the simplest of programs will need tweaking from time to time that is just the nature of the beast. Not every law that is passed is 100% sound either. Should we get on the political system for not doing their job and being perfect the first time? NO because no one is perfect all the time. If MS were purposely leaving these holes in their code, then I could see the problem but the majority of it is holes that were over looked.

    Just try and make something as complex as the Windows OS and go look through all the code and think of and fix every single vulnarability that may ever come up including using technology and techniques not yet invented or created. If you do that i'll give you all the money i have...(after you give me that OS...)

  47. poonamhpatel says:

    Why all the fuss?!?!?! Whoever sais any software was bug-free.. am sure the guy does his word processing on Ms Office!!!! If he doesnt want it, he better switch to something else... whats the deal about! Whatever you say, from a marketing standpoint, I think the company has done a BRILLIANT job and continues to do so... "Top-of-the-mind OS" is definitely windows...So, whats the big deal with this guy! And then again, talking about regular updates, if they are making things better for the users, whats the harm?!?!?.... It only goes to show that they are aware and acknowledging that they arent perfect. :)

  48. dizzy_davidh says:

    What is this guy on?

    What company in their right-mind is ever going to state that their software is 100% secure.

    Sounds very much like this lawyer is out to make a name for himself and is looking to all the Microsoft haters out there to help him

  49. fewt says:

    I would support software recalls very much like recalls of any other product, but this is a little crazy.

    Microsoft has been working for years on cleaning up Windows, this is way too late. 5 years ago there was an argument that could be made for it, but now? naah.

  50. valkero says:

    This guy is an idiot, plain and simple. No company has ever built anything even non technology based products 100% perfect. He must have stock or family that works for IBM. Because IBM has never put out an unstable product. For those who did not pick it up, that was sarcasm....

  51. PhilTR says:

    Oh great! We always knew that MS produced a defective product. Now the defects will be locked in a "closed box". Now that's what I call a marketer's dream.

  52. Sansego says:

    This guy is nuts, anything man made is going to be subject to error, not to mention the threat of hackers. If he wants to go after something, go after doctors, they get paid whether they fix it or not. Maybe some penalty for not fixing the problem.

  53. ajhome says:

    Oh ok am I missing same thing? you guyz pick on microsoft for bring out bad software. Has any one look at linux? or maybe MACOS X 10.4. Linux is most bugges unuserfriendly system out there. In my job I seen recall of linux server running redhat that cost $11 million in total and recalled because patching and bug issue. There server setup by linux pro's and was partership with ibm. The servers where reghost with windows 2003 server. There soo many bugs from not being able to boot after patch was install to slow network down 80% because of bug in swat proxy program. it was joke. and has same seen about of patchs for linux that send out a day. how come microsoft is getting pick on. look at linux. SUSE 9.3 pro is unuseable almost by default. Macos X is no better. There been lot of bugs come out of it. from wireless issue and system locking up after 10 mins. on my macintosh laptop it has caps lock bug. the point is no OS or program is bug free. and you guyz can go on and on how microsoft software is sooo buggee but maybe you guyz need to relook at others. I'm not saying microsoft is better. It's fact that microsoft is being piced on because it larger then others. look at linux and MACOS X, and other systems then rethink your view. because you can't tell me linux has no bugs your lie to your self.

    • PhilTR says:

      All linux type OS's are "FREE". You only pay for support and only if you want support. Linux is "OPEN", you can "LOOK" at the code and you can re-write the code to fit your particular needs. You can "give back" to the community for your free copy of the OS by giving the community the code you wrote. Lets see MS water carriers match that.

      • Maxwolf says:

        Yeah and as a hacker I could LOOK at the same code that others do and look for holes and subs and functions that could easily be exploited.

        If Linux was as widley used as Windows is then there would be so many exploits and bugs that you wouldn't be safe online or not.

        Firefox is starting to show signs of this now as it reaches, what...almost double-digits in percentage terms?

        Open source works, just not for core operating system componentns. I don't like the idea that anyone can look at any part of the operating system all the way down to I/O code to control HD head read/writes to something as vague as a shell component.

      • crythias says:

        The difference is that *everybody* has the same opportunity to look at the code in Open Source Software, so that instead of just a few hundred paid programmers with a nondisclosure agreement, the potential for thousands, even millions of people to look at the code and report back findings and fix problems, either personally or as an official patch... that is the big deal.

        The idea that a hacker can make exploitations without source code is already established. The problem exists where the end user has the capability of fixing the problem himself or sitting on his hands while waiting for your closed source vendor to decide whether the bug is critical enough to provide a patch. True, not everyone is a programmer... but that doesn't mean that there aren't enough people in the world truly involved enough to apply fixes for open source software... when and if it's necessary.

      • mhambrecht says:

        I am a fan of Linux but, I have to agree that if Linux had the same customer base that Windows does it would have the hackers attention. Everybody can make abig splash in a puddle but how many people will notice? On hte other hand make a big enough splash in the ocean and more will notice it. Hacking or viruses only get noticed if enough people are looking at it like with Windows not like linux.

      • PhilTR says:

        Just how widely distributed does Linux have to be to become as riddled with viri as Windows? I would imagine Linux would be suseptible from day one and yet Linux is relatively free of the maladys suffered by Windows users. I suspect that the reason Linux is free from 98% of viri is because Linux is designed differently. Also, talking about taking advantage of Open Source code vulnerabilities and actually taking advantage of these alleged Open Source code vulnerabilities are two diffent things, now isn't it?

  54. jbaltz69 says:

    How the hell does a politician know what good or bad code is? This will be another good waste of tax payers money in the state of Illinois when this goes to court. News Flash Andy, NO CODE IS PERFECT IT IS MAN MADE!!!!!

  55. Maxwolf says:

    Alright, for those of you who are trying to figure out all these comments here is a breif re-cap.

    1. This guys e-mail addy is: [email protected]. Which explains his level of computer literacy to the rest of the world.

    2. This man might in his mind believe that buying a computer is like a TV. You buy it and use it until it breaks. That is not the case of a computer which might be easily confused by someone from his domain.

    3. Nothing is ever 100% secure, but you knew that. I hope.

    A classic example of ignorance in the Information Age .

  56. frankwick says:

    This guy is too late to the game and is starting to look like an idiot. True, the corporate roll-out of 95/98 was a mess, but that was 10 years ago. MS has made huge strides, so has everyone else. I'm not a MS fan, but Windows Server 2003 is one of the best opearting systems I have ever used. It is stable and secure, but new threats pop-up and the OS gets patched.

    If he were to hold MS and Apple and anyone else to this high of a standard, then software costs would be so high that no one could afford a computer. Actually, the software would never be released at all since bug-free code doesn't exist. There is no such thing as bug-free code.

    MS has bugs. Apple has bugs. IBM & Sun have bugs. Linux distros have bugs. As the popularity of alternative systems begin to grow, then you will see more security breaches in these systems as well.

    I am thankful for software updates. Not only does it patch bugs and new security holes, but we occassionally get new features.

    AndyforIllinois is ignorant.

  57. alfredtwo says:

    Will Martin offer an unconditional warranty that no law he ever votes for will be overturned by any court? I mean fair is fair.

  58. sheppe says:

    This Martin fellow is a dumbass. An OS is NEVER going to be 100% foolproof - especially not one that is used by hundreds of millions of users. He's just trying to stir things up to win an election out of the ignorance of the general populace.

  59. mfetzner says:

    This guy is crazy and does not understand software. You can't force GM to issue an unconditional warranty that your car won't be stolen or won't involved in an accident caused by a third party. Software vulnerabilties are explored by people willing to do so. Technology will be always "hackable".

  60. GeorgeSantayana says:

    There is no such thing as bug-free software, with respect to security or anything else. I challenge anyone to find a CompSci professor who says otherwise.

  61. mhfreak says:

    I think he needs to go after car manufacturers as well. I have needed to take my car in twice for company issued repairs. Nothing is perfect. Everything has some type of defect. At least with Microsoft there is an automated mechanism for repairing any bugs or vulnarabilities that may appear. It should also be noted that the bulk of the "fixes" that MS issues are due to hackers who have nothing better to do than ruin the lives of other individuals for no apparent reason. Perhaps Mr. Martin should focus his attention on removing the hackers instead, who cause millions of dollars of lost revenue to companies, instead of the Microsoft. It has always been my impression that Microsoft is highly respectible company when it comes to identifying and repairing errors or vulns in their OS's. Is this guy only going after Microsoft because it's the biggest? What about Sun, Oracle, Apple, Baskin Robins (sorry, Linux) and other manufacturers of software? Does he intend to force them to do the same thing? I doubt it...Sorry Mr. Martin, but you don't get my vote....

  62. DLT9358 says:

    This is stupid. It is the same as telling Firestone that they can't sell a new tire until they fix the old ones.

  63. M1M2Z1 says:

    A dumbass republican?
    Hmmm, imagine that.

  64. fedor_andres says:

    he want's more money!!!!.....THIS IS SO STUPID

  65. pafinator11 says:

    I hate Microsoft. But as much as i wish they would fall this is 100% bogus. Every company has the right to sell a bad product. It is 100% up to the consumer to purchase what they want. That is why I use linux because I have a choice. Just like every other American Citizen. If you dont like Microsoft dont buy their product. Plain and simple. This guy is an idiot.

  66. mikebricker says:

    I'll tell you what. If this idiot gets elected, he can ban the sales of Vista only in Illinois. We'll see how much his constituents like that idea.

  67. gawd21 says:

    Everyone should stop breathing Oxygen and we should kill all organisms that produce it. Oxygen fuels fires and is corrosive. R- John Doe for IL

  68. kipdynamite says:

    Weird, usually these anti-Microsoft types lean towards the Green Party...

  69. death says:

    Sorry. Didn't log in correctly.

  70. scooby_doo says:

    What? I am sorry Mr. Martin your dream of a bug free Microsoft or any other software applications is just that a dream. I am a computer science student, I do not know of a single OS that does not have frequent updates in fact I expect and want them myself.
    I also work as a part-time programmer in our engineering faculty and although we try very hard to find and fix all bugs before launching a new application bugs inevitably show up.
    Application development is not like building a car or any other engineering effort. We are dealing with many factors that add to the challenge of building bug free code. Factors such as application complexity, staff turn-over, Operting System platform differences, programming language choice, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on.
    Software Engineering is a difficult and complex subject and any Computer Scientist or Software Engineer will tell you that while it is very important to perform proper application design bugs will show up, in case of Microsoft they are attempting to build a platform that , unfortunatley :), is being used by approx. 85-90% of the computers in the world......it may not be that high but they have leading market share that is for certain. Trying to develope an application that is going to be used by so many people for, I would argue, infinite possible uses is extremely difficult if not imposible.
    Perhaps your efforts should not be directed towards Microsoft but towards schools to help fund scientists who are working on problems such as this. Instead of yet another Microsoft law-suit spend the money where it will likely do you more good on education.

  71. T-Bear says:

    If'n you don't like the software, don't buy it {growl}.

    This exploratory Republican is an exploratory Democrat in disguise.

    ¤§ TBear §¤

    • zenarcher says:

      I think you are correct. If he were truly a Republican, he'd be protecting corporations and devoting his efforts to creating bogus "evidence" to attack other nations. He certainly wouldn't do that to a corporation!

  72. cold_realms says:

    The only way for a company to make software that is 100% bug and security risk free would be to release software that only ran on 1 hardware platform (1 manufacturer for each component) and only interact with its own software. We want compatibility, and we want choice in components. We ask for these problems because we are unwilling to be so locked into just one thing.
    For a quick case and point, the XBOX. It is a computer using strick hardware designs and software only designed with microsoftes hand (the XDK and test labs) how many times has your XBox crashed, or been hacked (not counting your own modding attempts)?
    I would like to see any company on the planet make an operating system that runs on billions of hardware configurations, with billions of driver combinations and be compatible with hundreds of thousands of software titles from different companies right out of the box, and is user friendly enough for Grandma to use, without bugs or security risks. Many people point to linux and mac as "well they did it", niether of these fit the same bill that Windows does for compatibility, usability, and choice.
    This guy is simply clueless as to the real world, and so is anyone who thinks that something should work flawlessly all the time and over time as threats change. He probably blames the city of New York for not making skyscrapers capable of withstanding an airplane impact.

    • Maxwolf says:

      "The only way for a company to make software that is 100% bug and security risk free would be to release software that only ran on 1 hardware platform (1 manufacturer for each component) and only interact with its own software."

      It's called Apple Computing. Even that is not safe these days!

  73. MoRpHeUs2003 says:

    You gotta be joking me right? Not release vista. Man this guy must either be Brain dead or bored. Mr. Martin, I work in a computer store that sells Microsoft Windows XP. There is no way in the world that you can make windows xp bug free. There is no software engineer out there that can make every system perfect. Differences in Hardware, how it communicates with the operating system. You really gotta hand it to microsoft though, they have greatly improved their product in the last few years. Taking the leap from the Fat32 file system and standardizing NTFS is great. As well as how windows reads memory. No more 640k base memeory now the machines use all of it. Alot of the time from past experiences is not microsofts fault, its the users fault. If a user installs spyware or gets a virus its the users fault, don't blame microsoft for that. Which brings me to another point Mr. Martin. Like anything sometime you get a defective part. Lets say your computer is locking up and you have a bad peice of ram. Is it microsofts fault, HELL NO, They even posted a Windows Memory Diagnostic tool to help you test memory. And one more thing, don't go after microsoft go after the spammers, spyware creators, virus creators. Nothings perfect.

    If your going to make any assumptions Mr. Martin get your facts straight first. Go and do a 2 year computer course and then try the lawsuit, I think you will not even bother then.

    Thanks folks and have a great day.

    Happy computing!!

    OH YEAH, IM CANADIAN, but if i had a guy like that running for Premier, id start asking questions quick. use your money for better things, like schools and poverty.

  74. dwiezel says:

    Mr. Martin obviously knows nothing about software or the software industry. In this age of technological proliferation, can we trust a neophyte, so ignorant of reality to be in a position of authority? I think not! Although I am an independent, I am conserverative -- less means more as far as government is concerned -- just as the forefathers had conceived. I think we need to hear less about and from boneheads like Mr. Martin and more from people who understand technology, software, hardware and business and its impact on the good citizens of this country !

  75. thiebaude says:

    If I felt this way about MS then I sure would be on a MAC instead of XP.

  76. earthstar says:

    You guys are missing the point when you say 'If you don't like Windows, don't buy it'. Microsoft has an illegal monopoly (not my opinion, this was determined by the DOJ). We are forced to use their buggy products, and by the time they get a product stable, the forced upgrade cycle begins. Throw away your hardware, because MS is too lazy to write tight code that will run on anything but huge machines...etc.
    I agree with Martin.

    • greensabath says:

      ..forced to use their buggy products..

      Umm....is Microsoft holding a gun to your head...I think not...so you are not forced to use their products. If you buy a new computer...just install the oh so easier to use Linux on it. Face it, Microsoft has made the computer much easier to use, which is one reason why they are a monopoly. Linux would be a real competitor only if all the Linux distributors would get together and make a streamlined version of linux that would be as easy as windows to install and use.

    • MoRpHeUs2003 says:

      You got to be joking me right? You must be on the same thing martin is on. You obviously don't have a clue here. Ok so lets just say they release vista, three months later a new virus comes out. Should microsoft protect its product at its release date of a virus or problem that won't come up in three months? I think not. I believe Microsoft is doing a great job in keeping updates going.

      MoRpHeUS2003

  77. Phil in North Bend says:

    Most of you have commented make the mistake of thinking that Mr. Martin believes there is any validity to his demands or that he has any expection of winning. I would be willing to bet that he doesn't even expect many Illinoians to be sympathetic to the effort (since most people will see his demands are idiotic). The ENTIRE PURPOSE of this lawsuit to generate NAME RECOGNITION. If someone has never heard of you, he or she is not going to vote for you. Once someone has heard of you, (even if the initial impression is that you are an idiot) you can begin to reshape your public image. Crazy...like a fox.

    That said, I don't think he'll dig himself out of the "idiot" hole he's making for himself, but stranger things have happened in politics...

  78. dwiezel says:

    Yesiree... Politix is strange voodoo... Perhaps Mr. Martin is perfect for the job! LOL

    p.s. We need to support American companies in this increasingly outsourced world... We need to build mindshare, expertise and experience here at home!

  79. SamiChang says:

    Weird people...when no one is actually *FIGHTING* with MS everyone blames and whines at MS and now the hero Mr.Martin will be the man who will fight with MS and take advantage for the rights of most consumers but damn people changed their mind and giving mercy(lmao)... they go like "maybe MS Windows XP is ok just my systerm is piece of cr*p or either their less of computer knowledge." People think about it... it's not Martin is fighting for perfect software or OS...it's all about the mega bloated Windows XP... people should watch the tour of XP....does XP match anything like they mentioned on the flash video tour or anything like damn advertisments? Security? Stability? lmao u can simply get your computer infected with damn spywares by using IE surfing on the internet(yeah now people wiill whine that they could use other browsers instead like FF Opera)....sometimes a simple click could crash your whole systerm(yeah don't click it;) ) lmao does those match how they bloated about XP's security and stability? and the SP2 omfg do i need to mention more ;) MS could be a bit more sincere to their consumers and more responsibility for their products!
    No offence to anyone here ;) Peace love and computer ;)

  80. qwertyu says:

    info about Windows Vista is here:
    http://www.windows-vista.host.sk/

  81. dwiezel says:

    Final Comment :: I have never had problems with SP1 or SP2. Nor have I had any problems with Windows Server 2003. I hope that Microsoft continues to innovate and improve on existing platforms while readying the world for Windows Vista -- Software is a journey, not a destination... :-)

    • leojei says:

      Seriously, 1 router and a good surfing habit is enough for comp securities nowadays. I'm not whinning about my luck nor my habit, but it's just a fact that I have never got a virus/trojan/worm/unwanted toolbars.

      To me, internet is still safe as no hacker would actually target my computer or at least try crashing my router. Everyone get these little unwanted guests in their computer is because of things they did before - clicking the wrong button, viewing the wrong email, trusting the wrong website, etc... The OS is solid and I'm happy to see further security is implemented into Vista.

  82. Aaronjk says:

    The only way to make an operating system even close to secure is to require the morons like Martin to obtain a licence to operate machinery!!!! Too many idiots are out there thinking that they should just get it and never keep it up to date, etc. Do you think if they bought a car and never changed the oil they could sue the automaker???? The computer requires UPKEEP!!!!

    • wincement says:

      hmm... that's actually a really good point. Maybe people should have to obtain licenses before they connect to the Internet lol.

      "Your (Internet) license is a privilege; not a right"

      Instead of speeding tickets, you could get spamming or virus tickets.

      It's funny to think about anyway...

      • fewt says:

        I've been saying it for years, people should be required to take a course on computer safety before being allowed to bring one home from the store.

      • leojei says:

        well, to me the public knowledge for technology now is extremely minimum. Last 10 years we didn't even have USB... Most people are now just beginning to use computers like my parents and they have absolutely no idea what can actually go wrong. For people like them, computers are like tools, and tools are rarely go crazy (or else just get a refund)~

        If our generation becomes older, we wouldn't be so ignorant about computer securities cuz we're facing it in daily basis, and so will our children~ It will certainly be a better days later :)

  83. camerons says:

    As much as Bill, Andy, myself, and a few million other people want to see bug-free code. The reality is that anything as complex and widely-used as Microsoft Windows is bound to run into problems and exploits that are going to upset each of us. Including Bill himself. Andy and 'The Committee to Fight Microsoft' need to set the focus on the real vermin, the hackers and nit-wits that do their level best to destroy waht each of us rely upon in daily life. Terminix fights the termite, Maybe they should diversify into pest control for technology. Microsoft cannot be put to any higher standard than anyone else who releases software out there. If you don't trust Windows, try something else. The Macintosh is a very sexy alternative, Linux is sexy but the manual is required.

  84. lagmaster says:

    I think this guy should shut up and leave Mr Gates alone. He has done the world a favour, and nobody is perfect. While your system may have a small issue, it can be asily fixed by service packs and bug fixes. It's not like we have to pay for those, and it's not like when we buy the software, we expect it not to have some imperfections. Microsoft messes up a bit of code, an this "martin" fellow annoys people who are happy with what they have. We all have our problems.

    • leojei says:

      k, I think it's a bad joke so please tell me to remove this if it's inappropriate.

      "I think Martin fails to delete some sensitive materials like porn-images or 3rd-person's love-letter and instead moved them to recycle bins, and found by his wife..."

      To him in this case it must be a mis-conception of clicking "Delete" key (or "Delete" on menu) that didn't actually delete the files.

  85. Biohazard_2.0 says:

    Although I almost completally agree with John_T, I think that vista should be fully beta tested before its final release. All OS's have securty errors because of Code Crackers and sometimes Hackers. Think about it Microsoft doesnt know the future, they didnt kow about the sassar worm, or the virus win32.pinfi ECT. Microsoft creates patches because they are concerned for the OS user. If they didnt create patches and updates they'd be getting sued for NOT making them.

  86. Biohazard_2.0 says:

    Well I guess HP& All Other Computer Companys should be sued for making "Buggy Software" that when they find a bug they fix it with patches. Yea right, this guys only after a quick buck and he'll loose anyways, he's messing with a 99BILLION DOLLAR company. He's not even half the laywer Bill Gates can hire! Think about this, all game making companys create update patches and repair patches every year, is he going to sue other concerned companys?

    • dwiezel says:

      Great idea!!! Let's kill the American business infrastructure, sources of technological innovation and leadership in the world and let the Chinese, the Indians and Muslims overrun the country!!! Just kidding... ;-)

      p.s. Perhaps they can live at Mr. Martin's house or better yet Justice David Souter's

  87. Willit says:

    Republican gubernatorial candidate? Sounds like a dumbass democrat, ambulance chasing trial lawyer... can we say Edwards?

    • mhambrecht says:

      Say what? A Republican sounds like a dumbass Democrat? Do you even have clue what you are talking about?

  88. iamtux says:

    Wow, he sounds really naive about how the software business works. You CANNOT release a program that has no flaws or vulnerabilities. No matter how secure you make a system, there is going to be a flaw. Firstly, because its made by humans, who aren't perfect, so inherently, the system made by the human isn't perfect. No one could have foreseen back when XP was released that the Blaster virus would be written. If MS knew about all the vulnerabilities back then, we wouldn't need antivirus, firewall or ad/spyware removal software. Get real and know what you're talking about before you open your mouth next time. And good luck keeping MS from releasing Vista, that's about the most futile thing I've ever heard. Like trying to stop the rain from falling.

  89. KHFleischer says:

    Martin seems to me to be the same type of lawyer who forced clothing makers to install those scratchy labels inside, the same type who tried to tell us that ladders would be safer if they bore lots of paper labels glued onto them.

    If he thinks that making a perfect, foolproof operating system is so easy, why hasn't he created one? Until he does, I don't think he has a right to criticize hard-working engineers who do the real work.

  90. super-lloyd says:

    Uh?...
    Is it a real news Website?
    I mean it looks like a well made joke!

    "The Committee to Fight Microsoft" ?! with one member right?

    Anyway I had a good laugh reading that!

    • leojei says:

      haha~ I first readed it from a NG and thought it's a joke too. But I know this site is genuine so I don't doubt the genuity about this article.

  91. super-lloyd says:

    BTW, I hate website where you should login, always forget my login / password and have to create new ones all the time!

  92. maggrand says:

    He has absolutly right. Microsoft sells garbage to the people at an overprised cost.
    The real cost for the next OS should be 0 dollars. So should Microsoft Office.

    Well everyone else sells it for 0. So why not Microsoft ?

    And u can get several hundred OS for free. So why is Microsoft so expensive. Greed is it called.

    Stop accepting this low quality software. Rembmer it is only the OS we are talking about. Compare whith Linux. Some of you say it is more bugs in it. Well open your eyes. Linux is ONLY the kernel. Not the all around software. So take action and stop Microsoft bullying Monopoly.

    • shy_one says:

      Think before you post you just said it yourself there are a ton of free OSes out there if you don't like Microsoft then don't buy it very plain and simple.

      Don't even mention that it's just because of software that you are forced to use Windows if you look hard enough there is a Linux equal for just about every thing Windows has some better some worse.

      Plus Microsoft is not the only one to charge for their OS ever hear of a Mac.

      • MoRpHeUs2003 says:

        All Linux Distros Arn't free. If you download Mandriva Linux they want you to join the club, and if you want Suse 9 pro you gotta buy it. Linux is supposed to be open sourced but its not totally. Get your facts straight before you post.

        Thanks
        MoRpHeUs2003

    • leojei says:

      hmm..... So you're the ones who believe 0 and 1 worth nothing. :) I would understand that if you use pirate software without feeling guity, but if you're using linux then you should know that codes DO worth some money, or at least "deserve" some money. There is always a desire price for every item you use - you cellphone, watch, tv, mp3 player, etc... so should software.

      linux isn't free, though it's free for programmers to access. linux has became a commercial product, just like windows. And linux is definitely NOT just a kernel.

      If you're supporting only because whether Vista sells or not is unrelated to you, then keep your opinion to yourself cuz you dont show a sign of contribution here. If you're actually using Windows, then switch to Linux~

  93. adimoga says:

    Every system has a bug, the system which rule us, the system teach us at school everyone has error. That is why we work hard to correct them and make thing better for the next genetration. It's easy to say that Windows has bugs and is not working correctly. I'm not apology MS coz i know they have lazy workers (thought in the country i live). That man act like an aggressive debugger who want to stop what.. the wheel to role? I think he want to make himself known which bring him popularity and connect his pocket wiht the cause "money". http://www.queen-beta.com

  94. Bozo3 says:

    Strength to your elbow Mr. Martin!
    MS has leveraged its position with bulk agreements to include the various US government departments, in order to swamp the "playing field". Despite all its efforts, I remain unconvinced of their operating system dependability, I have spent too many late nights re-booting, re-loading etc.
    Dave...

    • MoRpHeUs2003 says:

      Like people have said here many times before in this post. Microsoft doesn't have a gun to your head. GO with Linux. "I have spent too many late nights rebooting, re-loading, etc." If you are having this problem take it to a computer store. If your reloading your computer that often there has to be something wrong with the system. Or sometimes i hate to say it, its the user, Do a virus scan and a spyware cleanup. Check your hardware bud.

      MoRpHeUs2003

    • dwiezel says:

      I REPEAT:

      Mr. Martin obviously knows nothing about software or the software industry. In this age of technological proliferation, can we trust a neophyte, so ignorant of reality to be in a position of authority? I think not! Although I am an independent, I am conserverative -- less means more as far as government is concerned -- just as the forefathers had conceived. I think we need to hear less about and from boneheads like Mr. Martin and more from people who understand technology, software, hardware and business and its impact on the good citizens of this country !

      p.s. Perhaps you need training!

  95. mhambrecht says:

    I suggest that if you are going to block the sale of something that is inherently defective you might try condoms. There is no such thing as a secure condom yet we as men wear them all the time to have sex. Thus giving ourselves a false sense of security. This costs men and women lots of money every year. There are men out there who had sex while wearing a condom yet the woman got pregnant and now the man is paying child support, not the condom manufacturer who sold the defective condom. How about your car? No recalls? Your cheap DVD player still working after the ninety day warranty?
    Now for my most disgusting attempt to shock you into understanding the problems of programmers.

    Keep in mind most of the men and women working on Windows are creating something, not trying to destroy it, so they are not thinking of ways to attack it. However, there is a team of people whose job it is to break it, they find and fix what they can. What they are in fact up against is teams of people with nothing but time to work on a single way of breaking Windows. Now for the non-Winodws example of what I am saying: In 1966 work began on two large building designed to withstand fire, earth quakes, high winds even being rocked by an explosion. However, the architect who designed and built these buildings did not forsee that terrorists would sieze a 767 and a 757 Jet airliner and crash them into the buildings and after relatively short time both buildings collapsed killing thousands. Is Minoru Yamasaki, the architect, guilty of building defective buildings? How many times wwere pipes fixed in the towers? How many times was the wiring worked on? These are all examples of bug fixes and patches. I am sorry if my mention of the trade center towers offends anyone or disturbs them, I just believe we don't think of things Microsoft does in a true world light. I have am not a MS employee nor am I strictly a Windows user. I am in fact preparing to install two linux servers in my company because they are cheaper than Windows.
    Please consider what other software out there is released and show me any that have not need patches and bug fixes.

    • leojei says:

      The car example is just the first thing I think up after reading his argument. Your condom one is good too :D. Seriously, no one can make sure anything about computers, because there are so many little things that may go wrong. Who would have thought the inability to boot into Windows (or simply can't boot into anything including linux) is due to a partially-flied psu (power supply)!!? (My friend just got this on his desktop :P)

  96. bigbadguy says:

    I love this BetaJokes.com !

    This lawyer want to show the public that you can actually sue any company because their product was not 100% perfect. And being a lawyer can earn another buckets of gold.

    Men! Let's hire him to sue all condoms manufacturer...

  97. qwertyu says:

    info about Windows Vista - Longhorn is here:
    http://www.windows-vista.host.sk/

  98. mrappeal says:

    I am a lawyer too but I don't expect Windows to be 100% free of bugs. I also write a newspaper column on technology and write applications for use in my law practice. I expect no bugs in applications that I write and I expect it or something close to it in many specific applications that I purchase in stores but the operating system is a different story. Yes, I would like to see Windows have no bugs but the overriding technological problem is that Windows has to interface with many applications written by a huge variety of people and that makes uniformity of operation of a PC a near impossibility. What I smell here is just another obnoxious lawyer. I may be a lawyer but I certainly don't excuse the conduct of huge numbers of lawyers in trying to turn the technology world into a laboratory for frivolous lawsuits. Our courts don't have time for such foolishness and the major contribution that most lawyers have made to technology is, unfortunately, to impede its progress.

    • leojei says:

      Agree~ Martin is just wasting $$ for popularity to me. He got guts, but got vulnerable argument to back it up.

  99. randymorin says:

    If you don't like Windows, then buy a Mac. Complaining just makes you look stupid.

    • leojei says:

      yes! or just switch to linux and see how it works out.

      Apple is switching to x86 platform, time for stupid-looker to shape up themselves.

      • Linuxuser147560 says:

        "[B] yes! or just switch to linux and see how it works out.

        Apple is switching to x86 platform, time for stupid-looker to shape up themselves.[/B]"

        Been using Linux since 1999, been using Linux only with no Microsoft since 2000. Is there a point to your rant?

      • NickatNite says:

        If you're not using Windows then where is your gripe? You don't even have a dog in this race - you apparently just like to gripe. Besides, I also work with computer controlled systems and I have NEVER seen one come out error free.

  100. mrksct says:

    Great!!! At least someone with guts and correct approach.

    Being a software developer, working for safety crtical systems I don't beileve that people cannot write bug free software.

    Guess what happens if a buggy software like any of the Microsoft stuff is used in systems is avionics, robotics, space crafts....

    I do appreciate his effort, but going by history, I think Microsoft would not let him proceed much, after all it has plenty of cash.

    • leojei says:

      I would agree on the part that Microsoft software are buggy, and if the problem is extremely minor, it wouldn't be fixed for versions (I can bring you a minor dialog problem for Notepad if you want). Martin got guts, but a wrong method and argument. I personally think his demand itself is flawed.

  101. peterfnet says:

    I'm curious how he is comparing this. Mac, *nix and other streamline operating systems NEVER stop releasing updates to potential security holes.

  102. jdbrd says:

    I don't think Microsoft should be sued for anything. They have a right to put out product and the consumer has a right to buy or not buy that product. In most cases I don't want a patch unless it improves the performance of the OS. Nothing is completely free of bugs and it is good that Microsoft has concern for their product enough to try to improve it as they learn. Vulnerabilities are only there if you want to surf the net. A computer is completely hack, ad ware, virus proof if not connected to the intranet.

  103. Jose says:

    Don't forget that a lot of patches come AHEAD of time, but people don't apply them. Windows Update has been a part of MS since Windows 98 and SP? for NT. MS should be thanked for all of their updates and giving users the free opportunity to update. Also, making Windows Update, and now Microsoft Update, available for automation is a great favor to us the users.

    Also, don't forget that users don't OWN the OS; they are licensing it from MS.

  104. leojei says:

    The first thing after seeing this is a car. I think most of you have a car, and have experienced recalls. Do you think recalls are simply patches and security fixes? To me they are. If Martin calls Windows Vista "bad code". I would certainly call his car "bad car" cuz I'm certain his car got recalls before too, and most-likely at least one light on his car got replaced due to failure.

    Well he talks about unconditional warranty, remember how much we pay for the OS? Not even my insurance company offer this definite assurance when I pay them at least thousands a year.

  105. Linuxuser147560 says:

    As much as I would like to see this happen... it won't. The sheep will continue to allow themselves to be led by the ding-a-ling by the likes of Microsoft.

    Honestly why anyone would want to buy Microsoft anything now that Mac OS X is out there fully functional doing what Microsoft promises (and we know how those are kept...) better, faster, more stable and far more secure that Microsoft ever will.

    Heck, even Linux is superior to Microsoft on many levels. Bottom line is I would like to see Microsoft broken and torn assunder for the ant-competitive nature they have innundated the market with. I would like to see them pay for the countless ideas they have stolen only to re-package as their own.

    This was writtend from an AMD-64 powered Ubuntu 5.04 Linux machine. No Windows in my home since 2000!

  106. eracnid says:

    Well it seems to me a tight fight with vista issues,regarding open source and mac os they are perfect in their own ways,but dont u know every student in all over the world use computer with windows,The open source projects are not much earning fame as what MS did,
    another than that,no OS supposes to give to extreme security,even ur linux -ubuntu,fedora,mandriva etc are effected by security flaws ,n even viruses are developed
    simple rule is most of the hackers,crackers use windows to attack,as people are using windows than linux ,so if linux or mac being such popular as Windows now,u might see a dream that these open source OS"s are much effected with securities flaws etc,
    Well i m using windows,ubuntu and fedora 4,but those programs that i can make work in windows
    linux cant even think off,yeah its growning and needs a long time to compare with other OS's,
    I support bill gates and its team ,regarding security ,u might need to know i didnt use any antivirus from the past 4 years,n my every windows is working fine!!

    thats wht u called perfect surfing with windows!!!

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